Private school class sizes going up? AIBU?

[Meepme]

Our class is now at 16, but when my daughter started, it was 10. I'm debating what I'm actually paying for if they keep increasing the classes. AIBU?

@Meepme

My son in year 3 has a class size of 16. He loves it. He is really well supported and does well in school. He was down to 14 but 2 new starters pushed it back up. Some might leave in the next couple of years but it is good that he has a higher class size as it will be higher when he goes to secondary.

His brother is in year one and has 8bin his class. Soon to be 7

Shocking attitude.

I have had child in private school in class of 8 and of 18. 18 better.
Plus with the cost of living it isn’t likely to be financially viable to have such small classes

Having seen how little our ‘Outstanding’ State School cared about my DD with ASD I will always recommend private for parents who can afford it. We moved DD to Private just to get her out of State and it surprised us how much help they gave to us. We got SEN support hired for her, they created a customised physical activity plan for her with a ASD Physio, and she got the care she needed specifically because of the private school ‘parent networks’. The amazing care we got for DD is why we’re paying for DS to go to private from age 3.

The irony is that people are paying for teachers who can’t cope (this is a generalisation and there are excellent teachers in independent schools but too many bad ones that escape scrutiny).

I think all independent teachers should do a few years in state to learn how teaching is done properly.

@Sausageeggschipsandbeans 👏

In a state school it's up to 33...

@Wenfy my son has ASD and his "good@ state school have been incredible with him so I think that's just down to luck,

I do think "outstanding" state schools can be very toxic and afraid of "SEN".

IMO single word judgements should be abolished.. schools shouldn't be "rated" and pitted against each other!

OFSTED should be supportive and inspection reports should simply be ". The positives in this school are..,,

Next steps for the school to be even better are..,

Gosh, I'd have rejected any school with only 10 kids in the class, even if it was free! Sounds very limiting to me, both academically and socially. 16 sounds better, though still on the small side for my liking.

16-20 is ideal. 10 seems very low. Agree with others re friendship groups and the need for break out groups and team sports. I would see it as a positive that the class is getting bigger.

Just chiming in agreeing that 10 is too small. I have had DC in classes of between 10 and 16 in prep school with a TA and 10 is very limited socially and with who they can pair up with to work. I have also seen 3 girls with a terrible dynamic as the only girls in the class of 10

When a school is selling small class sizes as a benefit with only ten children it is usually only because they cannot recruit more children.

Mine are at private school. Class sizes need to grow at they get older. They need less individual attention from the teacher after Year 2 and more peer interaction. My year 3 son has 15 in his class with two classes per year . A really good number . Don’t worry !

I really hate this pitting of state and independent teachers against each other.

This lazy trope that independent teachers 'can't handle' teaching in state schools and think they're better than state school teachers does none of us any favours. We're all just doing our best to teach the kids in front of us. All kids need and deserve a good education and kids don't choose which schools their parents send them to.

For what it's worth I'm an independent school teacher who started out in state before making the switch. As a secondary teacher I will say that independent school teaching is harder from the perspective of the more advanced academic level you are expected to teach to - sixth formers are really getting a first year university equivalent education in most good independent schools. There is little disruption in lessons so you have more time to teach and as a result are expected to get through more material to a higher level than in a state school. You'll find many teachers with PhDs and MA degrees in independent schools than you will state. This doesn't always translate into excellent classroom practice, of course, but it's a good indicator of how highly academically qualified independent teachers are expected to be, much more so than in state schools.

I would say that state school teaching is harder from a behaviour management perspective, and a classroom management perspective - getting around 32 kids in a lesson to check progress requires military planning that a teacher with only 18 kids doesn't have to do as rigorously.

I could go back and teach in a state school tomorrow quite easily - it would be more challenging in some ways but a lot easier in others. However, I don't want to, because in my independent school, I am paid more to work less. I have small class sizes, more free periods than teaching periods, and am paid a generous salary that affords me a very good quality of life. Why would I go back? Rather than railing at teachers who choose to teach in a workplace where they are valued and supported, you should direct your anger at the government. If schools were funded properly, state schools would be just as attractive places to work as independent schools. But they're not, so those of us with the ability to do so will jump ship. Teachers don't have to be martyrs to the cause, you know. We are allowed to look after our own best interests!

To the OP - a class size of 16-18 is perfect. I wouldn't want any less. A class size of 10 would become quite claustrophobic quite quickly!

I worked in the private sector and expected 20 in a class.

At my children’s state school, there will be 16 in Reception next year.

@EnidSpyton but if private schools weren't a thing then perhaps schools would be funded properly?

And wow.. you said you hate private v state schools pitting against each other yet you slag off the behaviour in state schools and say pupils in private schools get a superior education?!

Re-read your post and give your head a wobble!

British parents seem weirdly preoccupied with class sizes, yet the actual evidence suggests that at most, small classes have some modest benefits for the youngest kids (under about eight). For other kids, the impact seems close to naff-all.

I am sympathetic to the idea that smaller classes may indeed make teachers' jobs more manageable in sectors where you have a lot of kids with SEN, challenging behavior and so on (including quite a lot who probably shouldn't be in mainstream at all, but schools are being given no alternative other than to take them).

With most private schools, however (unless they actually specialize in some level of SEN), the most difficult-to-teach kids (and disengaged families) have already been filtered out. Classes composed of kids who have been selected at some level ought to be able to study and keep up in reasonably sized groups, and should not need these tiny little dolly-sized classes of 10 kids in order to cope.

Just as well, because we will most likely see a lot of private schools combining classes into bigger classes over the next decade or so, in order to survive.

I think that's a fair question OP, but given COL crisis not surprising. 16 seems alot from 10 in a short time

We looked at 2 independent primaries for our eldest DD. One with class sizes of 10 and the other with class sizes of 16. We went for the latter as felt 10 was too small for a class (amongst other things). We asked about how they would deal with the potential VAT being added and they said that expanding the class sizes to 18 could be a possibility but we would rather that than the school close or the fees increase. It's still half the size of classes in the state sector so we count ourselves very lucky to be in this position.

I’d be surprised if 10 pupils per class would be any school’s aspiration. It doesn’t make sense for a private school to do this. It is a business, first and foremost.

I think it's quite normal for class sizes to increase as you go up through a prep or all-through.

People use state first, then move across when something they deem worth it kicks in (major sports in Y3, Latin in Y4/5, Y7 to wait for 13+ place etc.).

My DS started YR in a class of 6 with a teacher and TA. Now in Y8, there are 3 classes of 18.

The relevance is that the OP isn't some rich entitled person who inherited their wealth and has no idea of real struggle. They are a regular person who has prioritised education and makes massive sacrifices to send their dc to private school.

But you can’t compare it to State (where class sizes are 30) because these aren’t normal kids - they are motivated with engaged parents.

You don’t think children at state school are motivated and have engaged parents @Wenfy ?

Not quite sure your message really achieves what you mean it to.

You go from saying that you hate the lazy trope that teachers at independent schools think they’re better than state school teachers. You then use the phrase “those of us with the ability to do so” when referring to yourself and other independent school teachers. You may hate the trope but it’s clearly accurate.

Thanks all, the general consensus seems to be 10 is too small and a lot of the arguments seems to hold true.

I don't know why these threads end up being a private v state thing as that wasn't my intention!