Shocked by hatred of kids & parents on TES website

[kris007]

I've spent a bit of time reading the TES website which contains threads and postings from teachers and I am stunned by the level of hatred and abuse directed towards students and their parents. I am horrified to think that some of these creatures may actually be teaching my kids!
It appears that the "state of war" we read about it British classrooms is by no means one way traffic - the teachers
seem to relish getting in on the all the drama.

"it is easier to become a teacher than say a surgeon so obviously you get better more competition to become a surgeon, the pay is higher and the ability is higher. " I so much wish to believe that was true in all cases, IME surgeons are like any other professionists in the world, there are excellent ones, good ones, bad ones and cr*p ones. Their salary is not necessarily a good indicator of how good they are.

I simply had to join this site and add my response in defence of teachers on TES.

TES is, in effect, a social network which allows teachers to come together and discuss different aspects of their jobs and lives. Some people on TES express radical or controversial opinions. The site used, often, as a place where teachers can talk about their bad days, amongst other things. I reckon the site has probably saved several marriage, as well as creating a few! There exist many other forums where other professionals can write to express opinion too, only these are perhaps not as easily accessible to those who are not members of said profession.

We all know that people say one thing in a moment of frustration, anger, upset or distress, but do not behave that way on a day to day basis. I have many times come home from work close to tears at the way the children have behaved. Children who have thrown things around my classroom; children who have refused to sit down or listen to me; opening windows and throwing books out of them; screwing up another child's work (to great distress, sometimes causing a violent outbreak). Among other incidents I have been spat at, sworn at, groped by a year 11 boy (to largely no response from Senior Managemet), had furniture thrown at me; had to tear a savage and feral child away from the autistic child in the corner that she was attacking only to be scratched and hit in the chest by her...I could go on. My crime? Attempting to earn my meagre wage (according to an earlier poster) by delivering the curriculum the givernment sets out for me.

I think I am entitled to unwind and let of steam at the end of the day. I think that when I express my frustration of the wildcat child who wanted to kill an SEN child, this does not show a hatred of children, but rather demonstrates that I am able to keep my cool in the classroom and let out my anger in an appropriate forum.

So before you judge teachers, walk a mile in their shoes. Some are not as nice as other, but to go through a teachers' network/forum and use it as reasons to belittle the profession is just wrong.

And by the way, your little cherubs are not the angels you think they are. I suggest you watch this:

Eva

p.s. as for spelling. I agree, some are appalling. But I can spell perfectly - typing...now that leaves a lot to be desired!

Wow, Eva - thanks for the YouTube link

Sorry EvaSmith but you cannot explain away all of the hateful comments on TES just to a teacher who had a bad day "blowing off some steam". I see characteristics in the British teachers posting on TES that I've never encountered with teachers I've come across in other countries- a pleasure in the misfortune of others, a misplaced belief in their own superiority, and above all an absolute contempt for their students. Love that thread on all the evil things to make kids do in detention, and the thread mocking the names of their "feral" students. I think abuse and sadism were always integral parts of the British education system, and, now that teachers are fortunately no longer permitted to actually abuse their students, the urges find an outlet through other channels.

I think you also have to remember that not all teachers post on TES, just a minority.
(Also that not all mums post on mumsnet, just a minority)

I've read a fair amount on the TES website tonight and I'm shocked by some of the stuff kids and parents do/say to teachers!

Kris, i teach in a really nice school. would love to be a fly on the wall to see you on your own, for a week, with my timetable.

I'm forever amazed at how so many 'nice' children in the UK change when they think the face in front of them do not know their name. I have taught and worked in more than one country so I have other points of reference like yourself - and i understand your POV.

if you spent a week in my shoes, you would understand how precious you are being.

There has been a sea change in m any parents' attitudes. How many parents these days usually think the school is right and even if they're wrong I will back them up which is usually my view? My mother who taught in the 40s and 50s would say if the child were in trouble at school it would then be in trouble at home. That ethos has largely gone except in some families. Now if the child is in trouble at school many parents assume the child is right.

On you get what you pay for well obviously many teachers are good but it's nothing like as competitive to enter teaching as some other careers and therefore the pay reflects that and the calibre of people (hence the bad spelling on TES site and presumably most teachers not having quite as good A level results etc and IQ as your average female surgeon)

but i must say i agree with you re parents' attitudes on the whole.

here is the link Great stuff

oh Eva I think there were posts that certainly fitted the criteria you describe but many of the discussion/chat posts about SN were just vile and ignorant. The (ex) clinical psychologist was repeatedly using the forum to broadcast some sort of vendetta she seemed to have against autism. It was utterly offensive. Now after reading a few of her posts it would have been clear to anyone that she was completely insane but had the rants been about an ethnic rather than disabled group she would have been deleted. Instead there were plenty who were ready to come straight in and agree with her.

I read some of the threads discussed here and although I understand why teachers "let off steam" I found it very sad reading indeed. I do not believe that many of the comments can be explained away by "having a bad day".

I have worked with some of the most difficult, dangerous adult offenders who have commited crimes that are abosultely horrific but I have to say, neither I, nor my colleagues would speak about these peoplein a public forum, in the way children are spoken about on the TES site.

We may let off steam occaisionaly, but we have it drummed into our psyche that we must demonstrate a pro social attitude and behave in a professional manner towards everyone whther they are difficult, horrible or whatever. Because we cannot ever hope to work effectively and positively with people who know or even sense that we think they are "horrible" as some one earlier said - dislike the behaviour not the person.

These are children. I am disgusted by the attitude of some of the professionals on the TES site.

I think that following petty rules is very useful training for children if they want to fit in to society. Parents who laugh at and belittle these rules with their children are making it harder for the children to respect their teachers and therefore making it harder for their children to learn. It is pointless and self defeating.

Some of the teachers are very negative about children on that forum. These people should consider their job choice. I don't think that sort of "venting" or "letting off steam" is helpful. I think it is poisonous and should be avoided and replaced with a more contructive activity like some extra training perhaps.

but there isn't for Xenia .. her entire sense of worth, as fairly consistently presented on these boards, is wrapped up in money and 'status'.. which is IMHO sad and pretty one-dimensional but happens to many people .. including members of my direct family

I agree pigleto

"I think that following petty rules is very useful training for children if they want to fit in to society."

I'm not sure that I understand this. Do you think that petty rules should be blindly obeyed and no-one should ever question what they are for?

I havent read the chat section of tes, I only use the subject sections and have never ever come across anything negative towards kids or parents.

I think it's rather naive to read a few threads on a teachers website then decide that all teachers are shitty, hate kids and parents and at the same time proudly announce that their own child refuses to do something as simple as take their coat off and therefore delay a lesson for 15 minutes.

The rules may seem petty to you and your child but they are there for a reason. If a teacher cannot enforce basic rules that have been set in place across the school, then they have no chance of gaining the respect needed of the rest of the class in order to go on to teach. THe little things may seem unimportant to you but if these little things are allowed to go undealt with then the big things soon appear. I had to spend ages in one school making sure all kids had shirts tucked in, ties done up properly etc before being able to start the lesson.

If I didn't and a member of the SMT came in I would get taken aside and spoken to not the child. {left that school now}.

Gininteacups:

Because we cannot ever hope to work effectively and positively with people who know or even sense that we think they are "horrible" as some one earlier said - dislike the behaviour not the person.

I completely agree with this statement. Hence the reason that when I go to work the next day, the child who yesterday called me a stupid cow because I told her to stop drawing on her work, will be welcomed warmly into my room and given the same treatment as everyone else.

The TES staffroom is for teachers. Here is the description on the home page:

"Where the teaching community goes to let off steam, swap ideas and get advice from TES Experts. And while we enjoy a heated debate, please don't break our Terms & Conditions."

Since you are not a teacher, why are you trawling aronud on these forums? Your child's teacher delivers good lessons, treats your child well during school time and ensure they are achieving. The communicate ith your professionally on matter to do with your child. What they do and say during their personal time is none of your business.

PMSL at Xenia's 'you get what you pay for' comments.
I moved to teaching from a more lucrative career because, guess what, I find teaching a more stimulating and worthwhile career.
Also, the doctor who delivered one of my kids might be better paid than I am, but was verging on incompetent and had shit interpersonal skills.
Oh and don't get me started on the solicitor we paid for conveyancing the last time we bought a house. Charged the earth (£75 for writing a letter? - I do that in my lunch hour FFS),and he wasnt even particularly competent at the job.

If you look carefully at the TES website, you'll see that quite a few of the more frequent and more vocal or controversial posters (especially in 'opinion')are not actually teachers. Indeed, several have been 'outed' under different names and returned with new aliases. On a website which is fairly open to access (such as Mumsnet) it is always possible that people who seem to get their main thrill from the net will be posting to stir up controversy rather than to have an honest discussion.

Most ordinary hard-working teachers are far too busy to be posting on TES all the time, and far far too busy actually dealing with children to be spending a lot of time attacking them on the site. The anonymity of the net has a lot to answer for.

Having said that, small errors of grammr and syntax are a natural result of fast typing, and do not necessarily represent the poster's educational standard (though they may represent how much time the poster wants to spend proof-reading a post).

I did find the vision of the poor oppressed child being forced to take her coat off amusing. One of the things I hope my children's school teaches is courtesy. I would be very annoyed if they refused such a simple request to comply with school rules (I am assuming here that the child concerned was not in a school without heating). Can you imagine how that child will fare in the big wide world of work, coming into a meeting, for instance, and insisting on her right to: keep her coat on/leave her ipod plugged in because it helps her concentrate/put her feet up on a chair/chew gum? I'd be grateful if someone was firm with my child about the basic courtesies of civilised bahaviour, in the hope that it would build good habits. Does this child wear her coat indoors at home? Would her mother be happy if she were huddled in it at the dinner table? What a lot of fuss about nothing!

I haven?t read the TES site recently but have done in the past (and have not wanted to return to it). I was appalled by it; both by what was said and by how it was said. It is also inexcusable that the general mass of teachers have not done something about it ? the original postings do not reflect well on their profession and the fact that they do not clamour to have the postings deleted is even more damning.
These are the people who waste extraordinary amounts of my kids? time on PHSE and then post stuff like this. It beggars belief!!

PS Cun/art: I always proof-read my postings. In my profession I am paid to be accurate. It?s in my bones. It?s not something that I switch off when I go on the internet. I?d like to think that teachers thought that spelling and grammar were important enough to be ingrained and never ?switched off?.

Agree with Fembear. I am a teacher and have been shocked by some of the postings on TES. I disagree with Evasmith - what teachers do and say on a website that is representative of the teaching profession is other people's business - it is on the world wide web, it's not a private conversation.

They know they're being discussed here by the way

www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story_id=2580376&path=/Opinion/&threadPage=1