Pls explain the UK (high) school system to a foreigner

[EminSydney]

Hi there from Oz
DH's looking at an opportunity to move to his company's London office so I am researching about the school system for our 2 boys. Older one is 14 years (Oz high school year 8) and the younger is 12 years (year 6 in Oz primary).

So far it has been a bit brain-boggling. We are looking mainly at state schools, and I have come to understand there are selective state schools after children sit for the 11+ exams.
My kids both sat for selective school entry exams here in Oz as well, but whether or not they can get into a UK selective school is a different question. I'm just going to start by looking for a good school.

I need some help to get a better understanding how to look for a good school.

(((If there are mums who have gone through moving to the UK with high school kids, please share how you navigated through putting them into the state system)))

1. I saw this on a post but couldnt understand how to read it.

2022 GCSE results of current school:
99% 9-4 (A-C), 71% 9-7(A-A), 43% 9-8 (A*).

What does 9-4 (A-C) mean??

2. I know the UK school year starts in September. Which year would my son go to if he is 15 years old in Sept 2024? Are the years which they would study determined solely by age?
   In Oz, parents have a choice to send their kids to Kinder when they turn 5 or turning 5. So there are children who are a year younger than others in the same school year. Mine both attended Kinder after they've turned 5 which makes them older than some of their peers in the same class.
   So when they go into a UK school, they might actually have to skip a year if entry is according to age? Not sure how it would impact them academically as the 2 curriculums could be very different...

3. Does a local state school have to take them in if we live in the area no matter when and what? (this applies to where we currently are in Australia)
   Is it possible to start any time during the year at all?

Thanks for your time reading this!

Hiya, couple of answers.
The selective school depends where you live. Most of England have either state schools or private paid for schools. So only look at grammar schools if you are moving to a grammar area.
The gcse (exam taken at 16) changed marking so used to be A-f and now 9-1, so information is in both to help us oldies who don't know the new system.
Most kids start at 4, and are age rated. You're 15 year old will be in year 10 and starting GCSe which is a 2 year course.
The school will accept your children if they have space, you will be allocated a school with space and can ask to be on the waiting list foe one closer/ better

Ignore typos, I'm on my phone

Our grades at GCSE used to be on an alphabetic range which went to a G for its lowest point but where grade C indicated a pass and A* was the highest. In the last few years that changed to the number version hence the “translation” between A-C and 9-4.

the vast majority of children start school the school year (that is 1st Sept-31st August) they turn 5, and then that follows through the grading structure. Turning 15 in Sept 2024 would put him as one of the eldest in Year 10, which is when most work on GCSEs start.

And, yes, your local authority (council) has to find them a school to attend but it might not be the most local one. For example, my next door neighbours have just moved, the 13 year old has been offered a school place about 5 miles away, as the two closest catchment schools are full up, and I assume another two schools that are closer are also full. So she would be attending a school where no one goes from our town. In other parts of the country, five (or higher) miles would be the local school. Some parts of the country operate a grammar school system where an exam grades children for eligibility into the grammar (more academic) schools.

Good luck!

Hi can you clarify... Do you mean your son 15 in September 24 as his 15th birthday is x day in September 2024?
Or
So you mean he will already be 15 when he starts school in September 2024 as his 15th birthday is somewhere between October 2023 and August 2024?

You should go off the basis that he will be in year 11 for the academic year within which he turns 16.
Year 10 when he turns 15 during the academic year....
And you can work all other years out back from that.

To add, some children now go into the year below their standard year group (because they're summer born and don't want an age disadvantage), but it's extremely unusual in the state sector to go into the year above. This is much more possible in the private sector. However, you definitely, definitely want to avoid your son going straight into Year 11 if possible - he'd be half way through the GCSE course, with no flexibility on subject options, and would have missed two thirds of the course content. Most schools in the private sector would probably refuse to admit a child into Year 11. State schools probably have to, but it would be very difficult.

Also, it's often very hard to get 'occasional' spaces (ie after the main Year 7 entry point) in grammar (selective) schools, as they're very sought after. If you want a selective school at this stage, you're more likely to find a space in a selective private school (though some of these will also be very oversubscribed). It's much easier to find a state grammar place for sixth form (Year 12), as quite a lot of kids move schools at that point.

We are looking mainly at state schools, and I have come to understand there are selective state schools after children sit for the 11+ exams.

@EminSydney which part of London are you moving to?

Most state secondary schools are "comprehensive schools" meaning that they cater for all abilities.

A very small number of areas (e.g. Kent) have an old-fashioned system of selective "grammar schools" and "secondary modern schools", where all children sit the 11+ exam to determine which school they attend. Secondary modern schools can be considered less academic than conprehensive schools, because they don't have the full ability range.

Some areas that have mostly comprehensive schools may have a stand-alone grammar school that takes children from a wide area - known colloquially as a "super-selective" grammar school. SW London has some of these (e.g. Tiffin School). They are more competitive to get into,but as they take from a wide area (and many people don't like them on principle) they don't result in other local schools being less comprehensive. There are many excellent state comprehensive schools in London.

I'm just going to start by looking for a good school.

The Government's inspection service Ofsted defines schools as Outstanding, Good, 'Requires Improvement' or Inadequate. However their inslection process is controversial, and changes every few years, so its not always a reliable measure (and especially if the report is a few years old). This Government website can help you find info about specific schools: https://www.gov.uk/school-performance-tables

What does 9-4 (A-C) mean??
GCSE results are given on a scale of 1-9, with 9 being the highest, but its a relatively new system that replaces letters. The letters in brackets are an attempt at mapping between the two, but it doesn't look accurate. This article explains the mapping better: https://www.bbc.com/news/education-48993830

I know the UK school year starts in September. Which year would my son go to if he is 15 years old in Sept 2024?

It depends when his birthday is. If he will turn 15 after September 1st he will be in Year 10. If he will turn 16 after September 1st he will be in Year 11.

Are the years which they would study determined solely by age?

It's determined by date of birth rather than age.

Does a local state school have to take them in if we live in the area ...?

Only if they have a space. The best schools may be full. You will be able to specify up to 6 schools in order of preference, but if none of them have a space you will be allocated a space in a school that has one available.

Is it possible to start any time during the year at all?
Yes. This is called an "in year admission" and there will be information about the process on the local authority website.

Academic year in UK starts on 1 September.

A child who is 4 on 1st September will start school (reception) and a child who is 5 will start Y1. Count up from there. Secondary school starts at Y7 (11 on 1st September) in most areas but independent schools often have entry at Y9.

4-9 at GCSE is pass. The stats you gave are for a high performing school. You can compare school results using the comparison tool here which also shows improvement, attendance and other details. Ofsted reports give more context about a state school.https://www.gov.uk/school-performance-tables

For selective state schools the exams are taken in September of Y6 and you usually need to register by the middle of June of Y5. Independent schools have different deadlines. All of them should have the information on their websites. You will need to look at ‘in year’ admissions for children joining a state school outside the usual start point, and both your children are already UK secondary age.

for your older child, it may be best if they start Y10 in the UK, even if it’s a year below their cohort, as otherwise they’d be joining midway through exam courses.

With respect to GCSEs, please also be aware that some schools start the syllabus in year 9. It should be ok to catch up with a year 10 entry though

One slight addition/correction to the above, about listing six schools in order of preference. In some areas you apply like that, via the local authority. In others (eg Kent), all in year admissions are handled by the schools themselves, so you just apply direct to the schools (as many as you like). Also, confusingly, 'in year admission' doesnt just refer to moving part way through an academic year - it can mean any admission that's not at the main entry point at the start of Year 7.

NB also, you generally can't apply until you have either arrived in the UK or have a confirmed address and arrival date.

Just a note on spaces...

If all schools within a reasonable distance (including inadequate schools) are full, the Fair Access Protocol will come into action and a place will be made available but you don't get to chose where.

Also there is a good chance they won't get into the same school.

If you don't like the schools you are allocated you can stay on waiting lists.

Most parts of the country are not selective. Its a case of where are there spaces for people moving into an area.

The biggest issue is that GCSEs are a 2 year course that starts at year 10 (age 14) if your eldest has a July/august birthday, trying to persuade the lea to allocate to year 10 would be very advantageous, ditto if it's private. (Younger isn't an issue and will go straight into secondary in year).

They take exams at the end of year 11 which would be hard for your eldest if he goes into year 11 straight away

Something else to take into consideration is that lots of state schools do not run varied extracurricular music and sports programmes as school budgets are being squeezed these seem to be the first things that go. So if that is important to you / your DC double check the school has a programme or that there are nearby ones they can take part in outside of school.

Personally in your situation I'd wait a few more years before making the move, or stay in your home country whilst DH moves. It would be different if they were Primary age but messing around near critical exam years seems a bit daft.

There is often quite a bit of movement after GCSEs for sixth form so you should be able to move him at 16 if you are not happy with where he is for GCSE. Moving into year 10 you probably won't have much of a choice of school. You might have more luck with a private school for two years and then state sixth form (A levels).

Selecting 6 schools is only for when you're applying to secondary when they're 11 and everyone is moving schools, though, isn't it?

For in-year admissions, you find out which schools have spaces and your child goes there - isn't that how it works?

And you can add your child's name to the waiting list for schools that are full.

No, some counties still have a centralised local authority form for in year admissions, where you put down preferences. And then i think they give you somewhere else if all your pregerences are full. Seems silly to me. IME it's much easier and quicker when you're able to go direct to the schools.

I had a form that requested choices. I asked the council which schools had spaces in the relevant years, and filled in the form according to preferences and spaces.

MUCH more straightforward than contacting each individual school!

OP

This is probably quite overwhelming!

A few more questions:

• When might the move happen eg Jan 2024?
• Which underground station is nearest (so we can help you think about commute)?
• Will your DH need to be in the office 5 days a week or can he work from home?

Agree that your older child will find it tricky stepping into Year 11. Ideally, you'll start him in Year 10 to be able to have a chance at catching up on the GCSE syllabi.

A 7, 8 or 9 is seen as a good GCSE grade so schools often advertise their percentage of pupils achieving a 7-9 grade as a selling point.

GCSEs are a more important set of exams than Year 10 exams in Australia. At my school (top 10 independent), we're seeing top universities tell us that they are looking for a sweep of 9s at GCSE as well as A /A* grades at A Level for in-demand courses.

Can you be more specific about the area you want to live in? The grammar system is very different to state schools, and the independents are a whole other ball game as well.

I've don InYear admissions 4 times and always had to apply to the council. The schools could say whether there was spaces but not who had priority for them .

Just to add, granmar schools aren't really thing within London itself. A handful do exist but they tend to be described as "super-selective" because they're so wildly oversubscribed that only the very brightest win places aged 11 (eg 3000 kids sitting an entrance test for 200 places). Unsurprisingly, once in, people don't tend to give up their places, so spots rarely come up in later years.

The exception for this is for entry into Year 12 where there is a natural breakpoint in education in England, and a lot of "churn": with good GCSE results it's not difficult to get into some of the best state schools in London for A-levels (FYI Years 12&13 are usually referred to as "Sixth Form", a hangover from the old system of numbering year groups).

Going back to grammar schools for younger pupils, there are some less selective ones outside the London boundaries (eg in Kent and Buckinghamshire) - but I wouldn't get too het up on the idea , as in general London schools are pretty good.

Most London secondaries have a comprehensive (mixed ability) intake and tend to be pretty good at supporting children moving from aboard as it happens all the time - at my kids' school many kids arrived late in their education without even the benefit of speaking English.

The older one is currently 14, if he is aged 15 in Sep 2024 then he must currently be in the equivalent of UK year 9 and will be in the equivalent of UK year 10 in Sept 2023, when he will still be 14 but turn 15 sometime after Sept 1 but before June 2nd.

Meaning he will be in year 11 in Sept 2024.

EminSydney
Moving internationally with school aged kids, to England, is stressful.
You cant apply until you have an address and are in the country. We were expected to start within 2 weeks of the offer being made, or risk loosing the places. You will be offered the nearest school with spaces. This could be different for each child, and is likely to not be the best school in the area.
I would look for an area with a number of good schools, rather than one amazing school and some mediocre ones.

Can't comment on the 11+, as that's not a feature round here.

If your oldest is already 15 on 1 Setember 2024, he would start in year 11 if you moved on/after August 2024. I strongly recommend you do not move for a time frame that means starting after September of Year10.

Yes, you can start at any point of the school year.

Not necessarily. Summer born children (from May onwards) can now start the term after they are 5 but you need school’s agreement or at least LEA. I suspect it maybe difficult/impossible to convince a school to start him in year 10. I wouldn’t move a child if it meant starting a new school in year 11 as they will miss out on over 60% of the content for exams. If you can’t find a private school who will agree to year 10 entry then I wouldn’t move.

"At my school (top 10 independent), we're seeing top universities tell us that they are looking for a sweep of 9s at GCSE as well as A /A Star grades at A Level for in-demand courses"

This comment strikes me as rather scaremongering and unkind when directed at someone whose children are moving to a new school system at a critical point in their education.

It may be true for Oxbridge and a handful of other elite universities. But all is not lost if your poor 15 year old doesn't achieve that sweep of straight grade 9s at GCSE - as there are plenty of other very good universities who will gladly take them with mainly 7-9s. A level results (at age 18) are by far the the more important factor for university entry. Or maybe your kid will decide to go to university back in Australia. Oxbridge isn't the be all and end all.