Winchester college or Sherborne

[Wintergardener]

Good afternoon,
I am new to mumsnet and hope you can advise. My DS has a conditional offer for Winchester College and also an offer for Sherborne.

We were a little surprised that he received the offer for Winchester as I was unsure if he would meet the academic level but they obviously thought otherwise.The question I need to ask is how will a boy do at Winchester if he is average academically? Is Sherborne a better option?. I know some very bright boys go to Sherborne but the seem to have a wider intake.

We have a third option, DS could attend as a day student. Is this the best option? Leaving everything to the school does worry me.

I an past parent of Winchester, we wouldn't make the same choice again for all the reasons on this thread. It's definitely not worth the full fees in my opinion. The pastoral care, living conditions and food were not good. The teaching / support was not what we had expected from Winchester so I can understand why parents use tutors.

Many boys in my son's house had tutors and used companies for universities admissions particularly when applying to the US. I think that when parents are paying close to £50k pa there should be much more support from the school.

We were very disappointed with our experience at Winchester but have moved on, I don't think that being unpleasant to parents who feel let down by the school is necessary. I understand how they feel, it's a big decision to put your son into the care of a school for most of the year and frankly it's very upsetting when you find out that they received so little.

@Blastosis
The Headmaster’s opening line to the collected parents was “All give yourselves a round of applause for being here!” and the overwhelming feel was self-congratulatory and arrogant.

This thread caught my eye as I just caught up with a friend who had sons there - now has significant buyers remorse. This story doesn't surprise me at all.

We don't know much about Sherborne, but have a DS at Wincoll and we are very satisfied with the school so far. He did really well on his exams and interviews, and was delighted and felt really lucky to have received several offers from several academic boarding schools in the South-East.

We chose Winchester College due to what we perceived to be a certain warmth and camaraderie amongst the boys, something that we haven't really experienced elsewhere. There is a certain tranquility about the location already, and I think it somehow continues in the inner life of the school and manifests itself as what I can best describe as effortless gentlemanly attitude, which we admired considering the strong academic pedigree of the school.

So far we can report excellent food and teaching, and the boys in my son's dorm and clubs are all kind and motivated, at least when compared with my DS' previous school. There is also an abundance of character, which is so rare amongst teenage boys these days, and my DS always sounds content and confident when we talk.

Food is actually surprisingly good, more like a 5* hotel according to DS. Living quarters do vary from house to house, some are reminiscent of an upmarket country/yacht club, others are decidedly a lot more spartan, depending on the character of the house. The water blocks and study quarters were well kept and and sparkling clean in every house we went to, but some of the dorm furniture is indeed a bit worn. We glanced over this, prioritising the human element (housemaster, matron, tutors, character of the boys in the house and the wider school, etc) and the general attitude on campus.

We are still several years from university admissions, but I am also hearing rumours that for US university admissions, a single person supports 140 pupils in a year, which is indeed a bit lean and could be beefed up. Somehow Wincoll still manages to send pupils to Harvard, Yale and other Ivys every year (maybe it could be more with better support) so the pedigree is definitely there. Really hard for me to imagine tutoring at Wincoll, there is neither the space nor the time (boys are very busy, going from club-to-club in their free periods) nor the need for it in my view. Every boy has a tutor (Wincoll staff, mind you) at Winchester, they meet twice a week and that is more than enough at this age. DS never tutored outside school, and we don't plan to start now. The other boys also seem effortlessly bright and motivated/independent enough.

Re pastoral care, we kicked the tires in the first few weeks already after we heard from DS that another boy on the same roll (different dorm) really oozed negativity in the first few weeks. It made my DS somewhat uncomfortable but he is also fairly robust (this would have been just another thing to deal with in my DS' previous school) but Mr Neg in the other dorm continued his banter and seemed to have upset a good friend of my DS. What I heard was a bit of a no event ("you're dumb" type banter), but in Wincoll's otherwise tranquil and gentlemanly atmosphere it sounded like a big deal. In any case, since we had a catch-up call scheduled with the HM anyways, I decided to kick the tires and called the HM's attention to the poor upset boy in DS' dorm, but I deliberately stopped short of naming the perpetrator to see what happens.

This was four weeks ago, and according to my DS, the perpetrator Mr Neg has been behaving like an angel ever since. No idea what happened after I called the HM's attention to the issue, but pastoral care seems to work its magic behind the scenes. I am sure it also helps that that the boys are fairly intelligent, but I wasn't expecting this level of transformation from a single phone call.

Wincoll really knows what they are doing and so far we are delighted.

I was there for the Headmaster's speech this year, and I can assure you this was nowhere near what she said. Ancient history maybe? I am sure canes were also wielded at many schools at some point, but that it hardly relevant in 2023.

The new Headmaster Ms Stone created a positive first impression. She spoke freely (without any notes, no apparent prep) about her personal experience of the school (her son also went to Wincoll, before the family left for Australia, apparently the best school-year of his life were those at Wincoll), the school being close to London without being a part of London, and that senior boarding schools like Wincoll (where pupils are expected to be more independent, but always looked after and supported by kind and caring adults) are a nice stepping stone and a much needed transition between a child fully dependent on parents, and an 18 year old adult who is suddenly expected to take care of everything and face the world completely on their own from one day to the next.

Rarely am I impressed by Headmasters of any kind, but Ms Stone is really amazing with a keen eye on the big picture and seemingly abundant energy to see changes through. Watched a few youtube videos of hers, and I saw a really impressive woman with an amazing capacity for thought and action.

I am new to mumset and I am looking for advice from parents who have removed or are considering moved their son from Winchester.

Pastoral care and safeguarding are our main priority. My son doesn't want to stay at the school once we have given notice. Where do we start? A mum wrote on a previous post that her health was suffering ,I feel the same.
My son is putting on a brave face but we are very worried about him.

I would really appreciate any advice from parents who've had a successful move. My son is not in an exam year.

Can anyone offer advice?

@Wincollparent2023entry I think six weeks in might be a little early to consider yourself such an expert.

I may be able to offer advice @Moxiegirls .We left after the GCSES, looking back this was a mistake but we thought that we were stuck until after the exams. We should have removed our DS as soon as serious concerns arose , this is where the school fails beyond all else. That decision had a very negative effect on our family and I am ashamed to admit showed very poor parenting. Nothing at Winchester was as we been led to believe. I listened to the nonsense just like all the other new parents.

To say that boys are happy is laughable, although many don't share with their parents. DS said it was actually very difficult to do so because the entrance procedure is so long and parents become so invested. DS thinks that home life must be very unhappy if this seems enjoyable or even acceptable.

The pastoral care/ safeguarding in his house was shocking and yet we waited.I am happy to help if I can , I know the sleepness nights. Winchester will not make the transition pleasant.

I am happy to chat on the phone or meet for coffee if you are in the London area. I know how desperate we felt. Things will get better ,there are some great schools out there.

Thank you so much @Goodbillhunting .
I have sent a message.x

Brilliantly funny, thank you! I'm just slightly disappointed you didn't fit in a Manners Mathyth Man reference considering all the effortlessly gentlemanly teenage boys you've observed in the past six weeks

Very funny post, this is also very funny and has just been posted on the boarding school and secondary school boards. I do think it's a joke but then knowing some of the mums perhaps not 🤦‍♀️.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/boarding-school/4931076-my-ds-from-winchester-free-tutoring-for-top-public-schools

Winchester will be having a chat to @goadf90amum tomorrow re posts on social media.

Manners Mathyth Man will be undoubtedly be mentioned. 😂

I don't believe there is an anti-Winchester conspiracy. There are a lot of unhappy parents at the moment.

I expect pastoral experiences vary widely. Our son's housemaster has been excellent. The senior management is where the problems have been. They don't seem to care about the children or their parents or even the teachers. I understand this is a relatively recent problem and that leadership under Townsend had a healthier character.

It has been a tumultuous time, which is something we would not have chosen. When we attended an open day a parent expressly asked about whether there were plans to go coed. We were told there were no plans to introduce girls and that the sports hall would be completed in 2020, so our boys would enjoy five years of stability. What we have had has been the opposite.

The school handled the introduction of girls in a rushed and ill-planned manner while they were already late on the (still) unfinished development project for their sports facilities. The girls started last year with inadequate provision. Groups of 4 day girls have been shoved into boys full boarding houses with 60 boys. An e-mail was sent out at the start of last academic year saying girls could simply join in with any of the boys' sports. The lack of forethought was shocking.

The boys (and now girls) have been using a temporary sports hall for almost five years. Every six months the school send an e-mail telling us that the completion date is delayed by another six months. There are no swimming lessons available and for some sports the squeeze on facilities means that only the best are able to participate. No rebate has been offered on fees. Increasing numbers of boys are joining the Winchester City Leisure Centre.

The school dug up the main, quite new, astroturf in summer 2022 to build two girls boarding houses, but didn't submit the planning application for another six months and still hasn't started building. The boys could have enjoyed those facilities for much longer. Kingsgate Park, which is adjacent to many of the boarding houses and used to be used for casual recreation, has now been a building site for years. It isn't tranquil at all. It has a vast mound of earth on it that gets moved around by diggers periodically. I have never come across such a poorly managed building project in my life.

It is not all bad. There are some top notch teachers doing their best to keep the spirit of the school alive, but I could never recommend the school to anyone. It hasn't been worth the money, inconvenience or loss of precious time at home with our son.

No school is one-size-fits-all, and it should be possible to acknowledge that parents and DCs will have a range of experiences of and perspectives on any school. My own two DC had quite different experiences of the same prep school, one very positive, one increasingly negative, just by virtue of being different personalities and part of very different peer groups.

My DS is (currently) happy at Winchester. It’s early days, I’m aware things might change as he enters the GCSE years, and all I can do is be vigilant and keep an open and honest dialogue going with him. As I do with my other DC at a different senior school.

I imagine the posters who have shared negative experiences of Winchester would find it unhelpful (and quite patronising) to be told by others that their DCs can’t possibly be unhappy and must really be secretly enjoying the school but hiding it from their parents. I’m afraid I have a similar reaction to being told that there is no way my DS could actually be happy at Winchester, so he must be putting up with being miserable in silence because the only alternative is a terrible home life. I appreciate and sympathise with the stress of dealing with an unhappy child, but sweeping generalisations of this sort are rarely fair or productive.

Unanswerable @Micheldever - this makes me wonder if you are one of the Diplomatic parents at Winchester!

Definitely not, @Chilbolton - academia (thought that does require a fair degree of diplomacy sometimes!).

"I could never recommend the school to anyone. It hasn't been worth the money, inconvenience or loss of precious time at home with our son"

This is exactly how we feel @wincolmum.
There is nothing about the school to justify the fees but the loss of time with our son is my biggest regret.

It may work for those who live in or near Winchester and are on a bursery but for us it has not been worth it on any level. I would choose our state option if I knew what our son's experience would be like at Winchester.

Most of the boys who apply to US universities from Winchester are from overseas ,they run a course which costs circa £1,000 for those who are considering it. In reality most boys use very expensive outside agencies to guide them through the US admissions system.

There is very little guidance to help with admissions to UK universities ,which is where the majority will go. I believe that some boys missed their offers this year, including Oxbridge.

In my opinion there are too many inexperienced teachers and staff turnover is too high. The tutor assigned to your son can be someone who has just left university with no teaching qualification. This was introduced a couple of years ago.

Pastoral care in our house was very poor, others seem to be more fortunate. I don't think it's fit for purpose across the school in general.

The school certainly doesn't care about the majority of boys but it does seem to have the interest of few at heart. I wouldn't recommend the school to anyone, I know many parents feel the same.

I am so frustrated with WC right now and am venting and hoping someone can help me. My 2nd year is being mercilessly bullied in his mugging hall. Regularly and quite horribly by a group of boys. He's naturally shy and has become even more reclusive since the start of term. I don't really know what to do, having expressed concerns to the housemaster and matron a few times already who describe it as settling in issues and nothing seems to have happened except the impression that he needs to "tough it out" and should be on his electronic devices less. he uses these to call me to avoid being bullied because they won't touch him when they see me on facetime! No-one seems to care and we are calling around other schools in the hope they will take him early in the year.

Am I overreacting? I know I was intensely annoyed last year when teachers voted to strike - despite receiving palatial tax free housing, 20 weeks of holiday and average salaries of 70 thousand+. Not to mention a pension contribution of nearly 25%! All of which comes from my fees. In return, I'm not getting what I need out of them, which is frustrating me even more. I'm also not convinced the new head will particularly help parents in my situation. there have already been complaints from the parent body, but I shouldn't have to escalate this to the governors to get some action should I?

I am so sorry to hear what your son is going through @characterreference . As a past parent of the school I know how difficult it is when they are away from home and nobody is looking after them. Our Housemaster was equally useless and the matron should never have been involved in the pastoral care of young people.

In my view pastoral care is non existent at Winchester , you are not over reacting. We stayed too long so my advice be to look at other options for next term. This won't help your son in the short term, there are some very damaged characters at Winchester. Some boys seem to have protection from the school no matter what.
The whole environment is toxic in my opinion.

I don't recognize the school from the parents who sing it's praises on here and I think the unhappy parents are being far too kind. It offers so little in reality for most boys. My son has flourished since leaving, I only wish we had done so in 2nd year.

I have no experience of the new headmaster but it will be undoubtedly more of the same.
There are far too many staff at Winchester who are clearly in the wrong job , I'm sure that like mine your son will tell you the full story after he leaves.

The problem with a school which constantly promotes a few boys (beyond their pay grade) is there is never anyone to bring bad behavior into line. The head of house etc will be chosen from a donor family or one with influence that the school values. They will be absolutely no help to your son.

A new start after Christmas is the best advice that I can offer, there are lots of good schools which will be delighted to have your son. Good luck with your search and best wishes to your son.

Move your son @characterreference sooner rather than later and don't let the school bully or gaslight you. I am so sorry your son is experiencing this but not surprised sadly.

Spot on @Exwincollmum

@characterreference I'm so sorry to hear your son is very unhappy.

I am a former Wincoll parent. I also have a dd at another full boarding school. Both of them board(ed) knowing 100% that I would remove them in a minute if they weren't happy. And I often chatted to them about this and reassured them that there were plenty of other options. Without a doubt, if either had been bullied and the school hadn't dealt with it to my satisfaction, I would have removed dc. School shouldn't have to be endured.

Ds's experience at Wincoll wasn't perfect, but he was happy, motivated and engaged. We quickly realised that the pastoral care was quite non-existent. The matron in ds's house was someone to be avoided, rather than approach for help. I did complain about her. The housemaster was brand new in the role when ds started and wasn't particularly effective. The previous headmaster was pretty arrogant and out-of-touch and sometimes offensive. But, the former second master was a gem. Very sad to see him go. There were also a few other dons ds highly respected and will stay in touch with.

In terms of support for university applications, this was fairly low key. It worked for ds, as he had to be on top of everything himself. But, it may have failed him on the US application side as there was even less guidance on that front, other than a very general, untimely PowerPoint presentation. Be aware, that Wincoll is also not a centre for sitting the SATs; I couldn't believe this! And the school doesn't do anything to facilitate sitting them elsewhere or helping the boys get there. Don't expect any co-ordinated University Open Day trips either.

Ds is a good lad, with a sense of social justice, a good work ethic, considerable independence and is really quite cerebral. He didn't want to change school at any point (although he was envious of dd's school food!). He did seem to get the most out of the school.

At no point did we employ any tutors in the five years he was at Wincoll. I couldn't fault the academic teaching. Ds was in many top sets, but not all (i.e. 3rd set in maths, even though he achieved A stars in A level maths and Further Maths and aced STEP). He enjoyed the company of other boys of similar intellects and curiosity. I think Wincoll still attracts this type of ds, and now presumably dds and this is the crux of it. In other circumstances, a high-ntellect child may need to meet a hundred or a few hundred children to come across another of similar intelligence. It can be a lonely existence and I think this is the main reason ds felt he belonged at Wincoll. He was part of a very focused group of friends; he does tell me that all pupils aren't like that though!

Regular poster on mumset but name change for this post.

I agree with the other posters, pastoral care was practically non existent in DS's house.

Bullying was common place but unlike other schools Winchester won't admit to it.Your DS won't receive the support he needs. Our housemaster often joined in / facilitated the mocking. DS would never have approached the matron for support, she was definitely one to avoid at all costs. I'm not surprised that they are telling you that your DS is the one who needs to change.

I'm not sure how the head of house is selected but it's certainly not for their sense of social justice. Good guys were always overlooked.

Some teaching is good but not all by any means. It's certainly not worth the fees and the loss of time away from your son.The food was barely edible according to DS , this may vary from house to house. A cold environment all round is how DS would best discribe it.

The general lack of care is what disappointed us most, that's the least you expect in any school. We wouldn't choose a boarding school again because of our experience. Do you have a day option op? There will be a good boarding option if you need him to board, most schools have pastoral care at their forefront.

Perhaps if you start a thread parents with first hand experience of other boarding/ day options might be able to help. I would definitely move your DS before you get into GCSE year, he won't be able to thrive and his mental health will suffer.

Have been following this thread for a month. We have just concluded a tour of Winchester last week and met senior members of the team. Overall, unimpressed. The student who showed us round did not seem excited or happy to be at the school. Some of the buildings were shockingly shabby. The house we went to seemed bright and cheerful but nothing out of the ordinary. By comparison, Harrow Wellington Radley and Eton are much,much better. Two families we are close to from abroad have said no to Winchester in favour of Wellington as a path to the us, it seems to be on a winning wicket. Impressive headmaster and team. Wellington: The two articulate, well mannered girls who showed us around seemed happy and excited to be there. Rooms were immaculate and common areas did not look like a building bomb site. It’s also an SAT centre and the feeling was much more modern just cheerful welcoming and the warmth was tangible contrast to WC. We are also seeing others next month including Sherborne which is supposed to be great on pastoral - my DS is still about 4 years away from starting but we wanted to get to grips with schools owing to how early things seem to begin. Not sure at all about Winchester - they seem to be resting on their laurels, and they will need to pull up socks to keep up with others esp given the potential of a further vat increase in private school fees that might become a reality. It’s seems madness to pay this much for a poor experience, no matter what.

@FailFaster A few people have mentioned the uni applications and it sounds from your post that maybe your DS left very recently. My only skin in this game so to speak is being a listening board to friends with DCs there and observing their decision making process and outcomes. I am wary of saying anything too identifiable in the event friends' DC was a serious aberration and you'd know who I was talking about immediately. I wonder if the uni approach reflects the fact that the school has really outdated ideas about the power of its brand though - to the children's cost. I also wonder if there's a firm handle on predicted grades - although I'm sure the same can be said of other schools. We know several people from big names re-sitting A-levels this year. I guess in the private sector it can be hard to tell parents/children things they don't want to hear when they've spent that much (or almost that much.) (Ask me how I know, lol.)