Winchester college or Sherborne

[Wintergardener]

Good afternoon,
I am new to mumsnet and hope you can advise. My DS has a conditional offer for Winchester College and also an offer for Sherborne.

We were a little surprised that he received the offer for Winchester as I was unsure if he would meet the academic level but they obviously thought otherwise.The question I need to ask is how will a boy do at Winchester if he is average academically? Is Sherborne a better option?. I know some very bright boys go to Sherborne but the seem to have a wider intake.

We have a third option, DS could attend as a day student. Is this the best option? Leaving everything to the school does worry me.

But note that Tonbridge school has very long days as it caters for the borders so if there is a long commute you should ask for a boarding place

I didn't think much of the previous Winchester head (pompous ass comes to mind as a description) but knew that he would be leaving before DS started there.

The new head is female (but has chosen to keep the title of Headmaster) and taught at Winchester in the noughties before returning to her native Australia to become head of an independent girls' school. I'm extremely impressed by her so far. She addressed the new parents on the first day of term and seemed very articulate, sensible and grounded. The staff speak very positively about her. When she attended the recent whole-school house singing competition she entered discreetly and sat in amongst the parents, and was clearly there to support and enjoy the pupils' efforts rather than to take centre stage herself. She reminds me of the female head of St Paul's School in London, whom I found similarly impressive.

We withdrew DS from Winchester during the pandemic, he had become very uncomfortable about certain events in the house. Although they didn't involve my DS , he no longer wanted to be there. There seems to be a culture of cover up and DS was right to ask us to leave.

He settled very well in his new school from day one. He has asked us never to mention Winchester and feels sorry for the boys there. DS did ask me recently how I could have sent him there knowing the school's history. I must say I was at a loss for words. Many boys stay despite having similar feelings to my DS so he does feel lucky in that respect.

I doubt that a change of headmaster will make that much difference, she apparently loved the school as it was when she taught there.

Happy Wincoll parent here. It’s everything we expected and more. Kids are balanced, happy and the top sets fly high beyond the curriculum. Music has always been a strength, sport is amazing too and we are all delighted so far.

It is a very liberal school, and div(erse) opinions are welcome, so if anyone is hoping for indoctrination and strict cane wielding dons, well this is not a school for that type of old school.

Well, I completely disagree with this view. I was consistently bottom third and it made me more ambitious competitive and helped me become who I am, if I’d have been top of the class I would have coasted. Always trying to send a child to a school where they are top of the class is pointless. Unless you have a very self motivated child or a very sensitive shy child. These are exceptional circumstances. Most kids do well with a push and you’d be surprised how resilient kids are. Most of these schools with the so called “academic” like eton or St Paul’s don’t only have academic kids, they have kids of all levels with parents that have high ambitions for them.

Hi @mumstara where you at Winchester? My DS was not in the top sets and they took absolutely no interest in him. The poor/ non existent pastoral care did help either. He left for a school which wanted the best outcome for all the students

He ended up with A*/ A at A level and is studying at a very competitive London University. His outcome was far better than the vast majority at Winchester. A child doesn't need to be in the top sets of a school but they do need the school to take an interest, particularly a boarding school when parents are not involved on a daily basis.

were not where 😊.

Yes @Moreorlessthan i totally agree with you! A school that is only pushing it’s A team is a negligent school sending a terrible message and it’s awful to hear that Winchester is so thoroughly unprofessional! Very shocked by many comments in this thread. If the school is neglecting children in its bottom or middle set it’s no wonder parents are angry and rightly so. The descriptions of nutty tutoring begin to found like the london day schools scene. LOL, I was far from myself attending these posh schools and went to a highly academic school in another country. This school gave blue coats to scholars and average students wore green 🫣🫣🫣🫣. So ya. I am not for that sort of thing but being bottom set with loads of bright kids it gave me an incredible work ethic - kids are different though so if so yes have a child that has self esteem issues or perhaps takes this hard it can make it worse this type of thing. The main thing is different strokes and only you can know your child. It always depends on individual circumstances. Move them out if you see red flags. I was simply reacting to the first comment by @NeedingCoffee i think it was which was a huge generalisation. Around “if a kid isn’t in the top third, I’d have huge concerns sending him” That’s a ridiculous approach. It’s like saying if a kid isn’t making the a team or going pro, he shouldn’t be on the football pitch. Please. I’ll leave it with a quote. Life’s greatest glories lie NOT in our accomplishments, but trying again and getting up after our biggest failures. It’s seems to me that parents nowadays want to some guarantee or ensure success and happiness for their kids before even letting them have a go. No wonder mental health issues are on the rise. A little struggle helps kids, it doesn’t hurt them!a little boredom unhappiness and is ok - it’s part of life. Everywhere you go you aren’t going to be in the smartest in the room. That’s just not the real world.

"Eight pupils had a clean sweep of Grade 9s, with a further twenty-four having a profile comprised of entirely Grades 9 or 8 (equivalent to A*)."

This means that not even everyone in college (scholars) achieved all 9's.

Flying high beyond the curriculum not that old chestnut. My advice would be make sure you are ready to tutor during the holidays, most already have one. It's appalling when you look at the fees.

My DS found that DIv was dominated by a couple of students in each year, it did very little for the majority.

Winchester make it their priority to keep certain families happy , after the first couple of terms that is.

It's fascinating reading this thread, to see so many parents not only disappointed but really angry about their Winchester College experience- the lack of interest in all but a few, terrible pastoral care, the need for additional tutoring all come through consistently and from enough different sources to make it sound compelling. I can't think of another school that attracts so much negativity from its own parent body. And then the one loudly positive parent so arrogant and rude about another's different choice makes it look awful from that angle too. I'm in France- a very different system- and despite the kudos of a Winchester education, I can't say I'm jealous.

That's an interesting perspective @Crocus77, that the parents can reflect badly on a school. People making huge financial commitments for their DC's education can seemingly get too heavily invested in their choice and then tske it personally if anyone else differs...

It seems fairly obvious that Wincoll is a victim of some sort of defamatory activism on MN. Certain circles have a vested interest in seeing Wincoll fail now that it has introduced girls. We think it’s a good thing, but not everyone agrees. There are still loads of (pro single sex education) activists out there…

I have a child at the school, we are neither one of the big donors, nor special in any other way, and I can assure you that most of the criticism here on MN falls between baseless and ridiculous.

The idea of tutoring is a joke, boarders are way too independent for that; whatever my DS struggled with in Y9, would have been a struggle for a Phd level tutor too. Have a look at the final questions of the Wincoll entrance papers, and you’ll see what I mean.

The defamatory activism started with claims of tutoring during the year, and when someone pointed out that it is impossible due to the busy schedule of boarders, the activists moved on to paddle the idea of holiday tutoring. I can assure you these are completely baseless allegations.

Motivated kids can and do make a journey from a bottom set to a top set, my DS has friends who have done the journey in a year. Those that remain in the lower sets usually do out of own choice, not due to lack of encouragement.

People say that the only snobbery at Wincoll is intellectual, and we found this to be true. Noone really cares whether you have the latest iPhone, but everyone including pupils care deeply about academics and manners, and it tends to define the social hierarchy (as opposed to A-team sports, or expensive gadgets, often the case in other schools of similar calibre). The vast majority of families are upper-middle-class doctors /lawyers/ bankers, or from academia/politics, or very successful entrepreneurs. It is also rather cosmopolitan, similar to London schools, so it is ‘close to’ London that way, without being a ‘part of’ London.

The children of the (former) secretaries of state for education, and also (the former) sec of state for sports, have their kids at the school, and you would think that if anyone they would know, as education had been their full time job at work.

WC parent here second time over, posting under a different name. We aren't best thrilled with the new headmistress and the changes signalled - a return to a slightly spartan pupil experience and not particularly liberal in ethos, despite what's claimed. It's a shame really but we won't be staying and a number of pupils have already left in the first few weeks. It seems to work for others though.

It's been no better than an 'ok' experience for us. Fine if you're on a bursary and the alternative is state but not worth the full fee imo.

Our decision to leave Winchester had nothing do to with the introduction of girls, even though I thought the announcement was handled poorly. I think the pp described it well , fine if you're on a bursery but not worth the full fees in any way. I am not surprised that other families feel the same.

"The children of the (former) secretaries of state for education, and also (the former) sec of state for sports, have their kids at the school, and you would think that if anyone they would know, as education had been their full time job at work'

This made me smile particularly when I think of the people who have recently held those positions.

haha, @Crocus77 I fully agree- the parent above was so abrasive and judgy that if that is the culture of parents at wincoll its not saying much at all. But then all organisations and parental bodies have one or two complete nutters. that does not mean the school is a write off. also people are compelled to write rude things on this forum more than others, not sure why it brings our the "toxic parent" so much.

It seems fairly obvious that Wincoll is a victim of some sort of defamatory activism on MN. Certain circles have a vested interest in seeing Wincoll fail now that it has introduced girls. We think it’s a good thing, but not everyone agrees. There are still loads of (pro single sex education) activists out there…

this conspiracy theory from @Xmen made me laugh a bit. I really don't think wincoll cares or will be effected what is published on mumsnet if I am honest, its just peoples opinions rather than reality and must be treated as such. I think perception is not always reality and therefore dangerous to make decisions or trust fully based on a few self selecting group of people on a chat on MN.

I am years and years out of date but my brother was a hopelessly unsporty small tubby boy at prep school, and Winchester worked miracles for him. He was originally down for Harrow which would have been a disaster, my parents switched to Winchester last minute. They were brilliant at helping him find the one sport he could do (rowing) and it changed his life. Both Tonbridge and Sherborne have a rep for being quite sporty, I'd be worried your son would get sidelined if he can't shine there.

New WinColl parent here. I have every sympathy with pupils and parents who have a difficult time at any school; we've been there with an older DC (who wasn't at Winchester) who did end up moving schools to one which is a much better fit. While not trying to negate the experiences of others, I can only say that our experience of Winchester so far has been quite different.

Pastoral care has been very much in evidence and a good standard. DS's house matron is on the ball, approachable and responsive, and he has a great hands-on house tutor who really seems to get DS and has been very helpful in helping him sort out minor issues like extracurricular scheduling clashes. The single pastoral care concern we've expressed was taken seriously and seems to have improved. We are neither wealthy not important (quite the opposite!), so no reason for the school to treat us more favourably than others.

None of the JP cohort in DS's house have left in the first few weeks of term, and none of them have tutors during private study time. DS wasn't tutored for the 13+ entrance process, and we certainly don't intend to start now.

We like the new head, and I'm not aware that she has signalled any major changes to the running of the school so far beyond the changes already introduced by the previous head. Half a term in, DS has made lots of friends, likes the food in his house (a major improvement on his prep school), is enjoying most of his classes including Div, plays 2 sports he'd never tried before, is involved in 5 different music ensembles, and belongs to several clubs and societies. He's also taken part in an inter-house singing competition, listened to talks from various visiting speakers, and been invited on a school trip abroad. His main gripe is that there are so many extracurricular activities on offer that he doesn't have time to fit in all the ones he'd like to do. If that's a slightly spartan pupil experience then I'm happy with it.

Winchester isn't perfect, but then I don't think any school is perfect. The best you can hope for is that a school is a good fit for your DC and they are happy and achieving their potential there - and be prepared to find a plan B if that turns out not to be the case.

My son is in MP at Winchester, last year I would have described our experience as ok at best as @plasticplato said. I can't say that it was anything other than that. I know that no school is perfect but Winchester is a long way short. I don't think any family would be happy with the pastoral care in our house, it doesn't feel much better across the school imo.

We were holding out hoping that when the previous headmaster retired there would be a change for the better across the school. l realize now that is not going to happen. We now know that we want to leave the school but it's difficult to know what to do in our year. Yet the thought of staying until after my son has finished his GCSES is making me feel unwell at the moment.

In hindsight the school offers very little by way of societies and clubs. By that I mean there is no investment by the school in societies when you compare it similar schools. Many boys do tutor during the holiday even in top sets .Staff turnover seems pretty high to me when you look back over the last few years.

My son is very open with me about his experience there, other boys might not be.

We don't have a plan B but we do need one.

@Masseria can you please explain what you mean by pastoral care? Do you have any examples to share? We are new to boarding and my son is JP but I can't fault the school in anything at the moment. But maybe I do not know what to expect
I am so surprised that people have time to arrange tutoring, as I am really straggling to find some time for my son to do an online tutoring for a subject that he has out of curriculum. He doesn't even have time to speak to me many days.

I'm sorry but I don't want to share any more details while my son is still at the school.

Tutoring is mainly during the holiday in the lower years. This changes after GCSES.

The post below is from a parent last year on mumset, I think it explains things very well. Most boys in my son's house are already tutoring during the holidays for GCSE. In reality it's the lack of care and willingness to sweep incidents under the rug that concerns me most.

My DS was at WinColl and never received
support. He did well at GCSEs and then did nothing for a year. No one contacted me to let me know. It came to light that DS was massively behind in autumn of Year 13, and I was the one who had to arrange tutoring and monitor him (went down every Sunday and videochatted about his work nearly every evening) to get him through his exams. Don't even get me started on the complete lack of support for uni applications. Having said that, I believe that the school is attempting to make changes and increased support could be one of those changes.
When DS got to uni he was gobsmacked at how nice his fellow students were compared to the point-scoring ones he was accustomed to.

Thanks @Masseria . I am following all comments about Wincoll and hope that either are picky parents or incidental. The house my son is seems nice and he has no issues (yet) with anyone. I am always on top of what he is doing and I am not sure if revision during holidays (with maybe the help of a tutor) is necessarily bad. I don't think it means school doesn't do it's work. And then again it depends, if you want to achieve the greatest scores (i.e 9s and A*) you may need to work more.
Generally, I am not against tutoring per se, I mean children still work a lot on themselves if they have tutors. The tutor won't put them in their heads.
We haven't done tutoring for main subjects but I was always buying extra books and asking them to do more practice and helped whenever I could. I guess if a parent can't help themselves they might get a tutor.

Hello @Masseria can I send you a pm ?
We are in a similar position and have serious concerns regarding safeguarding/ pastoral care.
We also need a plan B.
Thank you x

Yes, that would be fine @Madretwo. We do need advice.

You lost me @Masseria when you said you expected massive changes from the new head (by now you may have realised that senior school heads are more spokespersons/PR professionals than managers) and your claim that there is not enough societies. Hm.

I have a DS at Wincoll and a close family friend’s at Eton and I can categorically tell you that neither of the above is true. Tutoring is a joke, when taking the calibre of most kids into account.

You are obviously out to damage Wincoll, which is a rather poor strategy if you really have a child there. All of which makes me wonder… do you really?