Buckinghamshire or Hertfordshire?

[StrawberriesSW1]

Hi there,

We're looking to move from Central London to Hertfordshire or Buckinghamshire and need further info about education provision in these areas. We wish to move just this once and don't want to have to move again. So for DD and DS 2 and 3, Primary till A - Levels. Also, with the way the economy is, we would like to have the option open for DC to be able to return home and still have their career options if needed. (I understand some on MN do not encourage planning ahead for the family in this way but this is our preference so please no comments about it being unnecessary to plan as we're doing. We've learnt from many around us who's children are back home after uni or after their wedding to save for a deposit etc and moving is expensive).

We liked Brookmans Park, Potters Bar, Welham Green and Cuffley in Hertfordshire for good connection to the city different stations in the city, connectivity to Finsbury Park and then South of the River. So this will be handy for work etc for us (we mostly wfh at the moment but both intend to change jobs soon) and also future proof for if in 20yrs wages don't rise as fast as rents or property prices in London. So connectivity works but we're not as confident about the options for education. The primary school offerings in these areas appear poor and it appears DAO is the only secondary school with a long standing good reputation (hopefully it will remain so). Our preference is for a sec school with some form of academic selection.

Buckinghamshire however, has lovely primary and and well regarded secondary schools. The issue is the lack of connectivity to London. Amersham seems to be the only area with options for two lines ie train and tube but the connection is quite restrictive till you get to Maryleborne which isn't really useful for much other than to change to the underground network into central London then change again. Great Missenden seems nice but the train doesn't seem reliable.
In essence the education provision seems suitable but not the connectivity. Am I missing something? I know Cross Rail 2 is being constructed but it's simply whizzing through Bucks and there'll be no new station or improved connectivity? Another puzzle I wonder about.

What other outstanding selective schools I've I missed in Hertfordshire, with good primary provision nearby and which area in Bucks have I missed with good connectivity to London? I appreciate your insight.

Re "we're happy to drive a distance to primary schools" - you might find that the catchment for good (state) primaries is small and therefore you won't get in if it's a drive away...

Milton Keynes - you can choose to take the 11+ and bus to Aylesbury or Buckingham grammar schools.

I live in the Herts area you’ve said and the primary schools are generally excellent so I’m not sure what you are looking for? Wroxham, BP primary, Pope Paul, Little Heath are all very good. Don’t just look at ofsted.

I'm not sure people get in from Milton Keynes any more? If they do, there's no guarantees for the future as it's not Bucks.

I’d also suggest looking at Bishops Stortford. Rail connections to Tottenham Hale for the Victoria line and onwards to Liverpool Street (and Cambridge in the other direction).

The schools are one of the main reasons people move here. 5 secondary schools, one highly selective, two single-sex, one Catholic and one comprehensive. Private school as well. All primaries are good; some are excellent (some are Ofsted Outstanding; not always the same thing though!). Housing stock cheaper than Harpenden and St Albans and more varied than Hitchin.

In Brooklyn’s Park you also have the option of QE Boys if your sons are academic. Many girls go to Bishops Hatfield which is not selective but an outstanding school.

Meant Brookmans Park!

Thanks everyone for your insightful contributions.
@Takeachance18 We prefer not to go as far as Aylesbury in terms of house search but yes the schools make areas south and SW of Aylesbury suitable.
@Sluj We've viewed in Brookmans Park and Cuffley and they had nice houses with good connectivity to London which is one of our criteria.
@DibbleDooDah thanks for those links. I've reviewed them all. Sandringham seems to be a school that does lots of activities for it's pupils. Very impressive.
I noticed that Bucks grammars send more to top 1/3 unis than those schools. However, if they don't do any tests for selection then the results must be viewed in that vein. The average progress 8 score in Bucks is .21 while Hertfordshire is 0.17 and the rest of the country is -0.03. Seems the grammar system in Bucks delivers better value for tax payer's money generally.
@Wigeon we're not looking at private although we're open to it for 16-18 if necessary. The SW Herts Consortium has only two schools in Watford. Parmiters isn't as popular I think. I need to review the two Watford grammars again. Watford seems so congested these days but it's handy for shopping and perhaps the overground too. We did look in Kings Langley last year.
@Forever42 there are many non selective state and fee paying schools in Bucks.
@miniaturepixieonacid Thank you. We're not considering MK for now.
@speedygreedy Well, the budget is somewhat variable. My DH will say £1.2m but with minimal work needed, 4 bed with two bathrooms, perhaps change the kitchen and repaint. My ideal is £8-900k so we can budget £1-250k to redecorate including new kitchen, bathroom, wardrobes etc. I'm not sure how much an extension will cost but I'm somewhat open to a 3 bed with room to extend. However, we're mindful that building work can be super stressful.
@SheilaFentiman thank you for the links. Chancellors isn't one of our choices.
@Skybluepinky DAO has only 65 places give or take.
@Twilightstarbright we almost offered on a house in Little Heath PB but the primary school, Mount Grace I think was rated as requiring improvement.
@Bumping QE Boys isn't one of our desired schools.

Chesham is not in Hertfordshire. Berkhamstead is in Hertfordshire. What about Marlow. Has several Grammar schools in that catchment area.

Must admit I'm baffled why you would like the areas you mentioned but not St Albans. I've lived in St Albans twice and whilst I agree it's overpriced it's got more going for it than the other places by a long way- I think anything you would like is probably not in budget anyway - but more up front to say that.

Re the SW Herts Consortium - they ARE all in and around Watford as I said, and all of them take children from Watford (including Rickmansworth School which is next door in Rickmansworth). Watford Boys, Watford Girls and Parmiter's are in Watford. Croxley Danes is outskirts of Watford. Queens is Bushey but that's right next to Watford (literally no gap between where Watfird ends and Bushey begins), and loads of kids from Watford go to Queens?

I'm not sure what you mean by "Parmiter's isn't as popular"? As popular as what? It consistently has one of the highest cut off scores in the admission tests and gets some of the best academic results in the county. It's one of the most over-subscribed schools in the area.

Just one thing to bear in mind re the 2 Watford grammar schools - neither is a true grammar - both are semi-selective (30% of admissions on the academic test) and younger siblings get in without needing to do the test (unlike a true grammar), as is the case with all the consortium schools.

You have a very healthy budget for a nice part of Watford. Areas to consider would be Cassiobury, Nascot, Bushey (frankly a suburb of Watford).

there are many non selective state and fee paying schools in Bucks.
But are they schools you would move house to send your child to, which is what you would be doing if your DCs didn't pass the 11 plus?

I find it really odd you are assuming you 2 and 3 year olds will get into grammar schools.

You absolutely aren't future proofing anything if you're working on that assumption.

Think you might have meant that Parmiter's isn't as popular as the two Watford grammar schools. Not true - have checked the stats for admissions in the last 3 years and the cut off scores for the academic test for the 2 grammar schools (around 200) are well below the cut off for Parmiter's (around 216) - this is because it's more over-subscribed so the cut off score is higher. The grammars are still both excellent schools though, and it's possible that some parents actively don't want single-sex, and so Parmiter's gets more applicants because of that.

@StrawberriesSW1
Some of the info you have been given is good but some is questionable. Eg Downley school in High Wycombe is Inadequate. Avoid at the moment.

If you don’t want Aylesbury (and I’m with you there) you need to look at Wendover, Great Missenden or Amersham. All have decent access to grammars and secondary moderns. The quicker train line is Beaconsfield and Gerrards Cross. Beaconsfield isn’t great for secondary modern. In fact Bucks isn’t great for private boys secondary schools either . Schools like Pipers Corner for girls are selective.

Maidenhead will be on the Elizabeth line. That might be worth a look. Some DC get into Borlase’s grammar in Marlow. You must live in catchment for Bucks grammars. You cannot be in MK and expect a place. New building in Bucks means Bucks DC will take precedence on distance.

As for Herts: my DDs went to Queenswood School in Brookmans Park. There’s a lot to be said for that area. I like st Albans and Berkhamsted. Good schools. If you want a Bucks grammar though, live in Bucks.

I think you need to be careful about value add scores etc at this stage - there's 8 years or so to go before your first one starts and ofsted etc can change in this time

Used to be. Now over run by new housing poor planning not enough infra structure creating gridlock in town.

Yes I was going to ask how old your children are too

I think you are going to be overwhelmed with choices if you are just picking based on schools currently rated highly which may or may not be suitable for your children's abilities in 10 years time or still rayed highly, plus ease of transport to London.
Why not take a look at towns you like in the wider sense which still have good transport links to London and then check out if it is has a choice of schools? Some of the areas you originally mentioned may have nice houses but very little else going for them. What will you and your children do there? What sense of community is there? Any cultural or sports opportunities ?

I cant speak for Bucks but Herts has lots of great little towns with a proper community feel and a nice market town atmosphere. You are obviously thinking long term so have a think about whether or not the town will suit your family at all stages.

@StrawberriesSW1 Mount Grace has a new headteacher so I’m hopeful it’ll improve, especially by the time a 5 year old is old enough for secondary. There’s also Chancellors in BP. But locally lots of parents I know are happy with Mount Grace.

@Sluj I totally agree with you. Think about whether you actually like the place and feel of an area, rather than just a bigger house or the schools- schools change . I personally would be wary of living somewhere that's a bit nothing , neither country nor town/city with children .

@taleasolasgrime I can assure you people do move to Bucks for grammar schools. They also move out to avoid taking the 11 plus. People also move into catchment for the best primary schools! When I worked for the LA, we had parents with babies asking about catchment areas. Over time these sought after schools have remained desirable. No grammar until recently wax good. All were outstanding. They really won’t change much over time. Loads of parents get their ducks in a row early. They only move if they want comprehensive.

I can only speak for the Watford to Amersham area.

Bucks offers great grammar schools. If you went for Amersham, you'd have Dr Challoner's and great train links (bit surprised by your comment, it's straight into Marylebone on the Chiltern or Met Line with an easy change at Finchley Road for the Jubilee).

I know kids who got into Chesham Grammar from our part of Herts but this is likely to shrink as you say. Although if you're in Chorleywood or Rickmansworth, you're one of the nearest areas out of catchment.

The two Watford grammars are excellent (but tiny catchments for their distance criteria). Boys school also good for sport.

St Clement Danes (comprehensive) is highly sought-after so you need to live in CW to ensure you get in on distance. Or Chenies which is ironically in Bucks but very near to the school. But not particularly great for sport.

@Nonameoclue I know someone who got in 2 years ago. You're right it's not guaranteed.