Buckinghamshire or Hertfordshire?

[StrawberriesSW1]

Hi there,

We're looking to move from Central London to Hertfordshire or Buckinghamshire and need further info about education provision in these areas. We wish to move just this once and don't want to have to move again. So for DD and DS 2 and 3, Primary till A - Levels. Also, with the way the economy is, we would like to have the option open for DC to be able to return home and still have their career options if needed. (I understand some on MN do not encourage planning ahead for the family in this way but this is our preference so please no comments about it being unnecessary to plan as we're doing. We've learnt from many around us who's children are back home after uni or after their wedding to save for a deposit etc and moving is expensive).

We liked Brookmans Park, Potters Bar, Welham Green and Cuffley in Hertfordshire for good connection to the city different stations in the city, connectivity to Finsbury Park and then South of the River. So this will be handy for work etc for us (we mostly wfh at the moment but both intend to change jobs soon) and also future proof for if in 20yrs wages don't rise as fast as rents or property prices in London. So connectivity works but we're not as confident about the options for education. The primary school offerings in these areas appear poor and it appears DAO is the only secondary school with a long standing good reputation (hopefully it will remain so). Our preference is for a sec school with some form of academic selection.

Buckinghamshire however, has lovely primary and and well regarded secondary schools. The issue is the lack of connectivity to London. Amersham seems to be the only area with options for two lines ie train and tube but the connection is quite restrictive till you get to Maryleborne which isn't really useful for much other than to change to the underground network into central London then change again. Great Missenden seems nice but the train doesn't seem reliable.
In essence the education provision seems suitable but not the connectivity. Am I missing something? I know Cross Rail 2 is being constructed but it's simply whizzing through Bucks and there'll be no new station or improved connectivity? Another puzzle I wonder about.

What other outstanding selective schools I've I missed in Hertfordshire, with good primary provision nearby and which area in Bucks have I missed with good connectivity to London? I appreciate your insight.

Berkhamsted, Tring, Harpenden and St Albans.

Thanks. St Albans doesn't appeal much and seems over priced. I'm not fussed about living in a cathedral town. Berkhamsted seemed passible especially with Chesham Grammar but it's likely in 8 years the catchment will shrink out of Hertfordshire. We like St Georges (although non selective) in Harpenden but not many properties have come up. Tring seems far and again no selective sec.

I’ve taught as a primary school teacher in both areas. I preferred Bucks myself - felt the schools had better provisions etc. I would say that it’s generally specific schools that are good rather than an actual area so may be best to identify two or three areas that have everything else you want and THEN look at the schools to help decide 😊

The only way to guarantee a Bucks grammar place (apart from passing the entrance exam) is to live in Bucks. Historically children living in Berkhamsted have got places at Chesham Grammar and the Aylesbury grammars but you’re right that catchments change.

This is the downfall of living in Bucks though. The alternatives if your child doesn’t pass the 11+ aren’t always that great (and can be awful). There are some great secondary Moderns in the county but do your research carefully!!!

Don’t discount Tring though. Unless things change then children who pass the 11+ have always got places at the Aylesbury grammars. Tring School is also highly sought after. The only downside is the train station is a little out of town.

You are also missing a trick by only looking at areas with selective secondary. St Albans is “overpriced” BECAUSE their non selective schools are so good and the direct travel connections into the city.

Thanks @Whapples do you mind sharing which areas you'll suggest we look at? We're happy to drive a distance to primary schools and perhaps school coaches/car shares for secondary school. It's the areas we'll be eligible for we need to identify.

@DibbleDooDah thanks for your insight. There's a lot of development going on in Aylesbury so demand will increase and shrink catchment is my postulation.
I haven't been to Tring but I perceive it to be a lovely town. As you say the station is out of town I understand and it felt rural driving south into Berkhamsted from the that direction. Shall explore further.
Thanks for the point about St Albans. DO you know which in particular? Shall have a look. I'm wary of secondaries with no selection as teachers I've spoken to don't speak about their experiences at non-selective schools. They're doing their best but could do with more social workers and teaching assistants, parents being more hands on and much smaller class sizes it seems.

It would be better to live close to a primary school and drive to a train station. You ideally live close to the primary school for friendships/ activities etc,. Aston Clinton is nice, you can then go to either Tring or Wendover for the train. Selection is ok, if they achieve the standard, but no guarantee at age 2 and 3, there are some not great secondary moderns and a non selective system is then better, as there is more mix. Waddesdon for example has a great secondary modetn, but most other secondary moderns in Aylesbury are not so good, when attending Tring would be a better choice.

You are missing ouy on lots of good towns and school in Herts by looking for selective education. Many of the schools are outstanding but not selective. DAO is academically good but has had some issues, there are better all round schools in Herts, IMO. Also, no offence but Potters Bar, Welham Green, Cuffley and Brookman's Park are really just commuter housing estates. With the exception of PB, there is not much else there and PB is not the nicest of the towns in Herts. Hope I haven't offended anyone.
What's your budget and housing requirements?

If you want small class sizes then you need to look at independent schools. Many of the Bucks grammars have 32+ students in each class after appeals etc.

You simply cannot compare the results of a comprehensive or secondary modern to those of a grammar though. I am amazed at how many parents use this as their main defining criteria.

Have a look at the St Albans schools below. St Albans is a leafy expensive commuter town. Parents are firmly middle class, motivated and ambitious for their children.

Beaumont School

https://www.find-school-performance-data.service.gov.uk/school/138286/beaumont-school/secondary

Sandringham School

https://www.find-school-performance-data.service.gov.uk/school/136609/sandringham-school/secondary

St Albans Girls School

https://www.find-school-performance-data.service.gov.uk/school/137339/st-albans-girls'-school/secondary

Loreto College

https://www.find-school-performance-data.service.gov.uk/school/138106/loreto-college/secondary

If you also check out their Twitter feeds you’ll see that they have a very much private school vibe with extra curricular.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SandringhamSch1

They are also all sending more students to Oxbridge each year than several of the highly regarded independent schools in the area.

A great state school will set effectively and ensure their students reach their potential. This is measured through Progress 8 scores. All of the schools above have progress 8 scores in line with Bucks grammars.

There are other schools and other areas to look. Catchments are tight and you’ll need to live on the doorstep for some schools. Hertford has some great schools for example.

I do, however, feel that you might be looking for the holy grail of an exceptional school within a short commute of London and a large detached house in a leafy area at a bargain price - they don’t exist! If you check out house prices in the catchment for St George’s in Harpenden then you will see what I mean, and that’s even before taking into account the religion requirement for admissions……….

Slightly unclear whether by "selective secondary" you mean state or private? There are both selective states and privates, and not all privates are that selective (eg in the Watfird area there's Aldenham (private) - not very difficult academically to get in, Parmiter's (semi-selective state) - difficult to get in on the academic test). And don't assume all privates have better results than all states - that's not the case in Herts.

Don't dismiss the non-selective state secondaries in St Albans - if you have the budget to live there, consider STAGS (girls only), Beaumont, Sandringham. Because it's so expensive to live there, the catchment is full of kids from professional, well-educated families and those schools are some of the best in the country...

Also need to know your housing budget and what you expect to get for that (3 bed terrace 15 min walk from station, vs five bed detached 5 mins walk from station?).

If you want selective state secondaries, consider the South West Herts consortium of schools, in and around Watford. Semi selective on academic, music and sport tests. There is then inner postcodes and outer postcodes, which have more/less priority - you can consider living in Watford, Leavesden, Bushey, Croxley Green, Abbots Langley, Kings Langley, or slightly further is Radlett and north London.

Fast, frequent trains from Watford, Bushey, Radlett into Euston or Kings Cross. Watford and Croxley are also on the tube - much much slower to central London but handy when there are train problems.

"I do, however, feel that you might be looking for the holy grail of an exceptional school within a short commute of London and a large detached house in a leafy area at a bargain price - they don’t exist!"

Here here!!

Although if you're not that bothered by the "cute historic market town" vibe of St Albans, then Watford is a very good alternative - excellent schools, quick commute into London, but house prices cheaper than St Albans because the town isn't so attractive. But it's perfectly decent, and IMO nicer than Hemel, Luton, other towns like that in Herts.

Not sure why you would want to drive to a primary - in Watford the good state primaries (of which there are lots) have fairly small catchments, so you have to live close by anyway.

*hear hear

I have friends who moved out of Buckinghamshire to avoid the grammar system. At ages 2 and 3 you have no idea if they will get into grammar school. My friends assumed their DC would get into grammar as they both went to grammar schools but then both DC were diagnosed with SEN at primary school. I would always choose a non-selective area over a selective one.

Milton Keynes? It's not pretty but it's a 33 minute train into Euston and it's its own LEA so you don't have to worry about what happens if the children turn out not to be grammar school candidates. There are, of course, some very poor schools in MK but also some excellent ones. If you went for the secondary catchments of Oakgrove or Walton High (generally the most desired secondaries, I think) then there are lovely, fairly 'leafy' estates too. Milton Keynes village and Middleton are both nice areas.

Bishops stortford has excellent schools, good trains and is a really nice town, surrounded by very lovely country side.

Potters Bar is a quick commute and Dame Alice Owens is a highly regarded school.

Unless you live within spitting distance of DAO, your child will have to sit the exam which is incredibly competitive. So many exceptional children I know haven't made it. The other areas you mention (in your first post) are lovely to live in, but you need to be near Chancellors if you would like a decent state secondary. There are plenty of very good primary schools.

Completely agree on DAO - 22 places are for the very closest children - and after siblings, music aptitude and LAC, a max of 65 get in each year on academic selection. Of these, some will probably be from Islington as that's a requirement for DAO.

Chancellors is OFSTED good, check you can be at one of the feeder primaries.

As you have no idea with the age of your kids how well they would do on an 11+, I think you need to consider non-selective state as well.

What’s your budget and how many bedrooms do you need?

People I know who have moved to the Home Counties have been shocked at the prices in the more desirable locations (good schools, good transport links etc) so it might help narrow down locations by what you could afford.

These stats are patchy as lots of schools aren't covered, but it'll give you an idea of how close you need to live to some primary schools.

https://www.hertfordshire.gov.uk/services/schools-and-education/school-admissions/research-a-school/school-admissions-previous-years-statistics.aspx

Similar for Bucks
https://www.buckinghamshire.gov.uk/schools-and-learning/schools-index/school-admissions/school-admissions-guides-policies-and-statistics/school-place-allocation-statistics/

The fast train from Leighton Buzzard station is about 30 minutes to Euston so those rural villages between Leighton Buzzard and Aylesbury might fit, especially with the grammar school in Aylesbury.

I would look at Leighton Buzzard. It's a relatively cheap place to live with a 30 min train journey into Euston. Lots of lovely new houses popping up in the area with good schools.

There’s some lovely ones in High Wycombe, also some great ones in Aylesbury, in the newer build areas in particular. Personally would recommend Downley and Greenridge as schools in those areas. I’ve also heard lovely things about the schools in Helen Hampstead , in Hertfordshire.

The Berryfields estate is very family friendly and as PP said, Green Ridge primary school is exceptional. Catchment area is small though so make sure you live close if that's your choice.

Berryfields however is a bit "all your eggs in one basket" for secondary. If they don't qualify for grammar, the Aylesbury Vale Academy is your only realistic state choice. I think it's improving but realistically the secondary modern school system has 90% of the cleverest most aspirational kids stripped out so it's not a fair fight.