Why is 6th form thought of more highly than attending FE college ?

[Summersunshinee]

I can never understand why if you say that you attend 6th form at school you are thought of more so than if you attended FE college.

I would feel that if anything it would be more impressive to attend FE college as you made the decision to go somewhere else and try something different /

Car maintenance also builds on physics and chemistry, you know. Besides, that's already a post 16 course.

Car maintenance is maths, physics and these days computer science.

@pointythings Never will I doubt the writers of Casualty again when it comes to accuracy.

I don`t think darts arithmetic is primary stuff, you try adding treble 17, 15 and 18 when you have had a few.

Also Russ Bray etc do a tough job on stage with a crowd etc.

Exactly. Like it or not (and you clearly do not), there are fundamentals of language, mathematics and science that everyone will need in life post 16, whether they're going on to academic study or vocational study.

The important thing is that young people get to make their choices and follow their interests. There should be more options like combined English, functional maths and double or even single science for vocationally talented young people, the eBacc needs to go (I say this though my kids did it - it's still bullshit), but ultimately we need more choice, not less.

@Comefromaway Computer science. Good call

@Summersunshinee some schools already do car maintenance.
But....schools cannot teach everything the world has to offer. They just can't and they shouldn't be expected to. Some things just should be taught at home/in the community - through life experiences.

Are those all trebles or just the 17?

I am never not sober, but that's the kind of arithmetic I can do in my head because it relies on basic times tables.

Bleach plus acid cleaner = chlorine gas. Which is potentially deadly.

Just the 17= 51

@Needmorelego Just putting it as an example.

What do you think should be taught but isn't

@Summersunshinee I don't think I could say what should be taught but isn't because the actual variety of GCSEs, Btecs, A-Levels and other qualifications is huge compared to when I was at school so the opportunity to learn so many different things is there already.
What I would like to see is a return to more coursework, modular subjects (where you take an exam at the end of each 6 week module and those results all count towards the final grade) and some of the subjects that are currently compulsory to be made subjects you choose to do - ie English Literature.
English language should be compulsory, but literature doesn't need to be.
I also think shorter courses would be a good idea where you get "credits" to be added up to be a final grade. So for example you could have a 6 week (ie half a term) course of gardening or something.

So (17*3)+15+18? 84.

That's the kind of stuff we did in Yr6 at my school in Holland. Mental arithmetic, very good for the brain - but primary stuff.

What do you think should be taught but isn't

Critical thinking, especially in the light of the media/fake news
How politics and voting work, and why it is important to use your vote (but without taking sides)
Debate
Scientific methodology (which is taught well in A level psychology but needs to move down to GCSE level so that people can understand how research works. You don't need the ins and outs of molecular biology, but a bit of good teaching would avoid a lot of people going down the antivaxx rabbit hole.

And absolutely what @Needmorelego just posted too. This is how it works in the Netherlands. Throughout your exam year or years you take exams on particular modules - these are internal to the school but moderated externally. The average of these is half your final grade. They are generally harder than the centrally held national exams and they include coursework in all subjects except maths.
Then at the end of your final year you take national exams. There is only one exam board. It is run by the state and not for profit. It is staffed by experts in education, including teachers. Everyone taking for example English A level equivalent sits the exact same exam - no fudging and finding an 'easier' board to make your school look good. That's the other half of your grade. Add up the two, average out and there you are.

@pointythings That`s why the Dutch are so good at darts.

Yeah I agree with you.

Going back to my earlier point.

You think it`s ok for someone who is not academic to be forced to possibly by lack of choice to take an academic subject that that they hate and have lower grades on average anyway instead of having the chance to do something practical where they may get a higher grade and increase their confidence overall.

But if someone is academic and have excellent grades overall and have good confidence they don`t need to take a practical subject that they may struggle in and possibly fail ?

You lot have gone soft.

@Summersunshinee no in a perfect world no child would be forced to do a subject they are expected to fail in. I mean what is the point in that?
Unfortunately the current education is more academic based (because that's what the government seems to want) so it does seem that less academic learners are forced to study subjects they may not do well in. But I have never met a parent who actually wants that for their child. It's not parents "forcing" their children to take these subjects - it's the school system.

@Summersunshinee why does the font keep changing on your posts? Makes it hard to read.

@Needmorelego I dont know. Its annoying though.

@Summersunshinee it's very odd 🤷🏻‍♂️

People think it'll be a better education, but I had a great education at college, and got a 1st from a good uni.

I think a lot of the issues around restricted choice come from timetabling. Not enough teachers for the subjects, nit enough funding to teach a full and broad curriculum. And 13 years of Tory rule has much to do with that.

No young person should have to do an academic subject they do not want to do. No young person should have to do a vocational subject they do not want to do.

@porridgeisbae Well done. Another advocate for college

I know, right? Isn't it great how college is best for some, while 6th form is best for others? Because we're all different and should all choose our own path...

You think its ok for someone who is not academic to be forced to possibly by lack of choice to take an academic subject that that they hate and have lower grades on average anyway instead of having the chance to do something practical where they may get a higher grade and increase their confidence overall.<br /> <br /> But if someone is academic and have excellent grades overall and have good confidence they dont need to take a practical subject that they may struggle in and possibly fail?

Do you agree that everyone should do maths and English at GCSE? Because the only other thing they are forced to do is science. I've already said I think they should be able to do just one science if they want. I even think it would be ok for someone who was really struggling academically with science to drop them all.

So - which academic subjects do you think students are being forced to do which they shouldn't be forced to do?

@Fairislefandango schools do usually insist on students taking at least one Humanities subject and a foreign language. They're pretty academic subjects.

Yes. In our area at least there are more schools who insist or at least strongly encourage every pupil that they think is capable of achieving the EBacc qualifying subjects to do them - especially the higher performing schools. It's more or less mandatory at my children's school, unless you're in the bottom set for languages, and the timetabling very much reflects that.

@Fairislefandango schools do usually insist on students taking at least one Humanities subject and a foreign language. They're pretty academic subjects.

I'm a languages teacher and have taught in a wide variety of schools Most state comprehensives might encourage students to take a language but, since it was made optional by the government, they don't usually insist on it in my experience. Schools do not routinely insist on a humanities subject. Even the grammar school I worked in didn't. My highly academic year 10 ds in a state secondary doesn't do any humanities.

I don't think students should be forced to do a humanity or a language at GCSE. The OP does think students shoupd be forced to do a vocational subject.