Why is 6th form thought of more highly than attending FE college ?

[Summersunshinee]

I can never understand why if you say that you attend 6th form at school you are thought of more so than if you attended FE college.

I would feel that if anything it would be more impressive to attend FE college as you made the decision to go somewhere else and try something different /

I have read every word and a lot of what you have said is very balanced and you have considered both routes.

Still think you could have done a better job of persuading your DD but each to their own.

Sorry if I have got a bit lost in this thread also but is your DD an only child ?

@Summersunshinee but why should @PettsWoodParadise persuade her DD to go against what she has a passion for, an interest in and a clear aptitude for? You're basically saying that all parents should push vocational education on their children post GCSE, even when those children already know exactly what they want to do, have the ability to do it and know how to get there. Why are young people not allowed to choose?

I am proud to have brought up my DD with insight and passion. Persuading her to do something she didn’t want to do or didn’t have an aptitude for would have been wrong for me as a parent and for her with her whole figure ahead of her.

Have you persuaded your children to try for sixth form and ikovestoy and turn down a trade?

Thank you @pointythings . Exactly.

Just saying they should experience both routes.

If they want to stay in 6th form. Why not just get them to go to an open/taster day and experience what its like.

And vice versa if someone want`s to go to college they should have a taster/open day at 6th form.

That way they can make up their mind and experience both and come to a decision.

If there is one thing I’ve learnt as a parent it’s that if you push your teen down a path they have no desire to travel, it never ends well.

Do you have an example of this ?

Numerous, but I can’t be arsed to engage any more.

@Summersunshinee you're basically advocating that parents should push their children towards vocational education even when those children know exactly what they want to do and how they're going to get there. It's nonsense. You're advocating bad parenting. My DC knew from age 14, so well before GCSEs, that he wanted to get into Marine Biology. He did all the work looking at the courses and the requirements and made his choices, then worked bloody hard towards his goals. What would it have benefited him for me to send him to an open day at a FE college that had literally nothing to offer him in support of his goals and his passions?

His 6th form arranged several visits in support of post 18 education and some were vocational. He attended. It did nothing to change his mind (though it did help firm up his first choice of uni when someone working in Marine Bio told him to go for Plymouth).

@Comefromaway Come on contribute.

@pointythings Ok you win.

With that in mind though.

Dont you think its dangerous to be lazar focused on one route and not have something else as a back up in case things do wrong further down the line?

Dont you think its dangerous to be lazar focused on one route and not have something else as a back up in case things do wrong further down the line?

A young person whose interests lie in academia isn't going to wish they'd done bricklaying if things don't go well at university. Anyway, there are no guarantees in life. My DC developed health conditions in his first year which mean he's in a wheelchair so a career doing research from boats etc. is gone. He's redirected his focus towards lab work and environmental education. Again, trust young people to make good choices, support those choices, let them grow up and don't push them towards what you would want for them. It's not about you.

@pointythings Ah I didn't realise that. I guess that changes/limits things a bit.

Why do you keep bringing up bricklaying also ?

Your DC play with Lego or something ?

'Bricklaying' is quicker to type than 'vocational education. Especially when I am typing one handed because I have a cat sleeping on my other arm. Lego is brilliant though.

The point I am making though is that as parents, we have to allow our children to grow up, take responsibility for their own choices and live their own lives. Post 16 is a moment to support without pushing.

Total waste of time. DD works with her father and has experienced clearing out drains and doesn’t want to do it as a career. It would have been to completely false to sign up to college and potentially deny another student a place because you @Summersunshinee think it is good to ‘try’. Nope. Waste of the admins time at the college, DD’s time, some student who wants to do that course. If she wanted to hedge her bets fine but she didn’t. You really don’t understand how real life happens if you think juggling multiple choices in this way is realistic for bringing up a sane teenager.

You do know @Summersunshinee that schools are obliged to give alternative options to students and not just promote their own establishment!?

I have seen private school students try out DD’s sixth form before they decide if they want to commit to 2 years at a fee paying school. Knowing it will cost them a term or two of fees. So I have seen people who waste time and places and then withdraw so last minute someone who really wanted the space has missed the orientation days and other run up experiences due to ‘taster experiences’.

@PettsWoodParadise Ok fair enough I understand your view but my way could work for some people.

Schools give alternative options ? never. They would lose out financially.

6th forms and FE colleges already offer taster days and open days. As parents it's our job to facilitate what our children are interested in post 16. If you have a young person who doesn't yet know what they want to do, absolutely explore both vocational and academic options, I am totally here for that.

On the other hand if you have a young person who already knows what they want there's no point in wasting time, energy and precious places that another young person might want on someone who knows where they're going.

My local 6th form doesn't need to worry about recruiting - they're full and operate a waiting list because they offer a mix of academic and more vocational subjects. And yes, they do support young people who find out in Yr12 that they would be better off in a college doing something more vocational; they do not attempt to keep that 6th form bum on that 6th form seat for financial reasons because they care about the whole person. You're very cynical about 6th forms and schools, I hope that isn't because you've had a negative experience.

Your idea isn’t new or unique @Summersunshinee Schools have a legal obligation to highlight alternatives.

Colleges visit schools in DD’s area and do talks. Drama schools have tie ups. Engineering college have tie ups. It happens. Young people nearly always (yes room for improvement) make informed choices.

@pointythings My school didn't have a 6th form but generally if you wanted to go to college the teachers didn't want to know and you were on your own, whereas if you wanted to go to 6th form elsewhere they were all ears.

Why would they want to support people not going to 6th form as they are losing them elsewhere ?

Its just from my experience as detailed above as I went to college post GCSEs.

Schools give alternative options ? never. They would lose out financially
Of course they do. There are lots of school 6th forms who don't accept all their own pupils back even if they wish to return.
At my children's school every pupil and their parents are offered a meeting in year 12 to discuss their post 16 options with a senior member of staff and if they don't wish to return in 6th form or the school dont think it's their best option then of course alternatives are discussed. They have talks from the various local colleges in year 12 and open days at other places advertised in the school bulletin. There's also quite a lot of movement between schools around here, as well as between schools and colleges. I doubt we're unique.

I stepped away from Mumsnet for a couple of hours and this is still going 😂
@Summersunshinee I don't know why you think I am defensive?
You are the one that just keeps saying the same thing over and over and just doesn't seem to get the message people are saying.
As some above said.... I give up !

@Summersunshinee your experience of poor practice in one school cannot be generalised to all the schools and 6th forms in the UK, you know.

Isn't that just a way of getting rid of trouble makers ?

But it`s good they do that and let local colleges come in and open up some minds.

Of course it isn't a way to get rid of trouble makers. It's a way to support a range of young people in Yr 12:

• The ones who have realised that 6th form isn't for them and that college would have been better all along
• The ones who scraped in with borderline GCSEs and realise that they can't handle the step up to A levels - the school helps them explore options and guides them
• The ones who in Yr12 have worked out what they want to do when they weren't there at the end of Yr11

At my local 6th form the ones who have coasted through GCSEs and who are now failing because they need to actually put in some work aren't 'got rid of'. They have their options set out for them:

• Work their arse off to get the best possible result out of Yr12, or if that is not possible
• Repeat Yr12, possibly with a change of subjects

It's only the ones who fail Yr12 twice, or who continue to not do any work, who are encouraged to leave. Again, I realise you had a very poor experience of school and 6th form and you absolutely have my sympathy, but you have to stop assuming that all schools are like yours was.

It`s all very pro school so far.

No positive feedback for college.