Holidays

[dubsie]

Holidays are becoming more expensive and this is especially the case during school holidays.

Thanks to the education act we are forced to cramming our holidays into just a few weeks a year and holiday companies know this and can pretty much charge what they want.

A week's holiday in Croatia has just cost me over 2500 for a family of three in a threw star hotel bed and breakfast in May/June The same holiday a week earlier was just 1300.

Isn't it it time that parents are allowed to take their children out of school for a couple of weeks a year so we can enjoy a break together. They are our children and they don't belong to the state .

Possibly. I teach quite a young age group where it's less about knowledge acquisition (which text books can be useful for) but more basic concepts and skills that need direct and active teaching using practical resources, and you know, actual teaching

@Dodgeitornot they fall behind. Being off for any reason repeatedly including for sickness impacts learning and achievement. This has been assessed statistically.

The system doesn't have rules for no reason. Its evidence based to help ensure the teacher can teach effectively and children can achieve their potential.

@MomFromSE I never said being off doesn't impact on attainment. The sickness question was rhetorical because of course they fall behind. Of course this will show statistically. We have an education system that's completely inflexible and massively disadvantages those who can't attend regularly. It penalises those who are sick and from a very early age indoctrinates the idea that being sick off work is wrong.

The only reason I brought up the sickness argument is because it's very easy to slander parents taking their kids on holidays. It isn't a right, that's true. It's a privilege. However I'm trying to highlight that the issue OP has pointed out, negatively effects every single person in education. From teachers who can't attend their kids nativities, to sick kids, kids being behind because their teacher has gone off sick and the replacement has no clue what they're doing, all the way to those who move schools and are baffled because this particular school teacher that topic at the beginning of the year and they've come from a school that teaches it at the end. Their parents will have no idea they're behind or how to help them catch up.

Of course a great teacher cannot be replaced by a text book, but at least a standardized curriculum provides an easy way to check gaps for knowledge and provides an easy to follow scheme of work another adult can step in and try to teach.
I'm not sure the posters agreeing with me realise quite how big this problem is and how far from ' silly parents taking their precious darlings on term time holidays' it stretches.

If teacher numbers/recruitment wasn’t such an issue, it would be nice if teachers were able to take, a certain number of days off school during term time as well as standard, filled in by a sub. This could be used for essential family events. Again, standardized textbooks/set content in a curriculum makes it way easier to do this without significant disruption.

I don’t know, though, Anglophone countries, with the exception of the Republic of Ireland (where textbooks are universally used and it works just fine, and teachers seem to have much saner working hours), mostly just seem to really dislike textbooks; they are seen as boring or as a lazy form of teaching. The teachers I know in the UK spend an awful lot of time creating huge numbers of PPTs and their students seem to spend a lot of time in semi-darkened classrooms staring at them. A textbook would be preferable, but I doubt this is going to happen in my lifetime.

@Dodgeitornot I can’t see how what you are proposing for parents term time holidays could work even with text books. Only parents willing and able to teach their children two weeks worth of lessons while on holiday wouldn’t fall behind or use up teaching resource unfairly for catch-up that should be used for teaching the
rest of the class. Inevitably those with the least family support would fall behind the most further exacerbating unequal education outcomes. As Covid has illustrated parents can’t just easily replace teachers for learning.

If every class had a highly skilled TA that knew the class well and was qualified to teach, teachers could more easily take term time holiday but that’s a completely different point.

If the point of school is to prepare kids for adult life why not give them the opportunity to learn about how to take holiday- for many of us this means planning it to minimise disruption and doing extra work before and after. I'd rather the school year was 2 weeks longer and both teachers and students could take a holiday in term time. I'd be on board with textbooks if that helps.

Modern languages seem to be less valued these days, but surely going somewhere where everyone speaks a different language and they can try out using it is a really important learning experience, and the same with experiencing different cultures, landscapes, ways of coming at life. Even things like seeing cars on the other side of the road helps you see there's more than one way of doing things. Which may not be in our government's interests but I think it's good for people.

@user1477391263 Anglophone countries, with the exception of the Republic of Ireland (where textbooks are universally used and it works just fine, and teachers seem to have much saner working hours), mostly just seem to really dislike textbooks

I grew up in the United States. We used textbooks for every academic class all the way through high school and most of the way through university. It was only in the very upper level university and graduate school courses where they felt the need to pick and choose from various sources. Admittedly, the textbooks used vary from one school district to another, but there was, at the time, a reasonable consensus about what material should be covered in a given academic course.

@user1477391263 Textbooks are used extensively in the states. They have a course based curriculum which relies on textbooks and makes it very easy for students to catch up or for a teacher to step in to cover lessons. It also makes it easy for kids to switch schools and not have to retake because the school they're now in use a different exam board.

I'm American and that's only partially true. Textbooks are extensively used but all schools don't use the same text books at all and the oder in which the curriculum is taught doesn't slavishly follow the order in the text books. Switching schools comes with the same issues though of course there aren't anything akin to GCSE or A-levels in the US which is the main difference.

It's impossible to generalize about education in the States; there is no national curriculum. It's organized by state and by school district, of which there are about a million!

Textbooks were probably also used a generation ago more than than they are now.They have been little used in most American schools I have any knowledge of.

@MomFromSE That's my point really. The way the UK curriculum is set out makes it very difficult for anything to go wrong. Ironically at a time in a child life when a lot goes wrong. GCSEs and A Levels are linear so if you don't have 4-5 trouble free years; be that a teacher absence or a child illness, it is very difficult to not be at a disadvantage. Of course US kids are too, I'm well aware of the inequalities in education provision even within a school district, let alone state to state.
However I feel the credit based nature of the high school course load makes for a much more flexible curriculum. I also think it's much more varied as it doesn't force kids to specialise so early on. There is a lot of criticism about Americans only covering their own history and no geography but I've found their Lang arts is brilliant. My daughter stopped having history and geography at the age of 12 in the UK as her GCSEs started in Y9.
I also feel the US system is much better suited to kids with SEN. You finish your credit and that's fine. You don't need to remember it for 2 years and sit 30 exams, knowing that the way GCSE exams are scored, it's impossible for everyone to pass anyway.
I find it baffling that Rishi criticises the low pass rates in maths. It's not possible for everyone to get a 4. That's not how the UK exams system works.

Doesn’t your child play with other children at school?
YABU. As multiple pps have said; the disruption and continuity of learning would be so severely disrupted if there were children out all through the year.

There are 13 weeks of school holidays per year for state school pupils. If you can’t afford to go in the school holidays, don’t go.

I decided to take my child out for a family trip to Copenhagen. Two days of school missed and I've been fined by the LEA.

I've refused to pay the fine and I went to court yesterday and told the hearing that my children are my children and they don't belong to the state...they are my responsibility.

They upheld the fine and added costs and again I've refused to pay on principal. The court had now ordered criminal proceedings against me. I told the judge pretty clearly that that I will stand firm regardless of the outcome and if they choose a custodial sentence then my childrens will have to go into care at huge cost to the state and my childrens welfare.

I can easily afford the fine to be honest but it boils my blood that the state feels like it can control me or my children. The whole thing stinks

Have you finished yet this thread.. surely it's dead by now.

You're just looking for a reaction, it's amusing.

What a great parent you are. Teaching your children your values and the fact you refuse to comply with rules.

Have you finished your thread yet.

You're looking for a reaction.

Your reaction stinks.

There are rules and there are rules, children have to learn which ones to follow....some rules that are made by the state should be challenged because they are immoral.

If they made contraception illegal or being gay a criminal....do you think we should teach children to blindly follow rules

Rules are there to be challenged....my children are not subjects they are human beings with freewill.

You are comparing a rule on term time only holiday to a personal infringement like making being gay a crime?

It's similar to being fired for taking unauthorised leave at work. Its not a question of personal freedom. Organising annual leave so things can run efficiently is necessary and schools are no exception. Emergencies like a bereavement etc of course need to be accommodated but a standard holiday does not.

Your post can't possibly be real.

Are you a troll, or are you saying all this for a reaction.

Now just go away.

This thread is dead now so just leave.

There has to be a degree of pragmatism about it. Our school seems to be pretty relaxed. Lots of people leave early the day before a holiday for example and they’ve used inset days cleverly to extend half terms (eg adding a Friday and a Monday to a half term). We’re taking an extra day for one of ours which saves £1000. That feels less disruptive than taking random weeks here and there.

There was obviously a reason for bringing the rule in. If parents were using their judgement sensibly at a population level there probably wouldn’t have been a problem. But… people are idiots and take the piss. I was on a Disney planning forum and someone had come to the realisation that their 3 week holiday for their year 11 child with 2 weeks out of school might not have been the best idea. Loads of the posters were like ‘it’s so educational, don’t worry I took my 5yo out with no problems’ without really stopping to think that actually missing 2 weeks in gcse year was going to be stupid.

I get it I really do but when the LEA are telling parents with children that have borderline behaviour or mental health issues that there are not sufficient resources for their child but then fining other parents for taking leave ....I get the feeling they are overstepping their authority.

My friends child has been taken out of school because the lad isn't coping. He has some degree of ADHD and developed a lot of anxiety. The poor lad is missing out massively and there has been no help.

Yet I decide to take some time out and they treat me like a criminal being ordered into school to explain myself. To their horror they get an attitude they don't like. Well I'm sorry I rule the roost in my household and no state department is going to bully me into anything. It's my child and I know best and if they have a problem please report me to social services to which they will find a happy well cared for family.

No, they are not overstepping their authority. The law gives them this authority and it has been upheld by the Supreme Court.

The policy was brought in to tackle persistent absenteeism, which damages the education of the absentee and also of others in their class. It has been successful in reducing persistent absenteeism. Many other countries have similar fines.

I don't know which LA you are in, but most LAs don't fine for a single period of unauthorised absence unless it is particularly long. In most cases, at least 5 days unauthorised absence in a single term or 7 days over 2 terms is required before a fine is issued. If this fine was issued contrary to your LA's code of conduct, you had a case for having it struck out.

There is clear evidence of a link between absence from school and a child's life chances. Research has shown that 17 missed days per year leads to a one grade drop at GCSE. Of course, parents who insist on taking their children out of school for a holiday insist that they know best and that the research doesn't apply to their child.

The basics, of course, are that you send your child to a state school. You are therefore required to follow the rules. If you don't want to, you can home educate or send your child to an independent school (although they might throw you out for unauthorised absence).

Yawn, you're boring now.

Do you ever stop bleating on?

I would expect that learning to drive would be your 1st step. Driving gives you freedom.

I assume this would also include children of teachers and you would be happy for school to have staff off continuously for this and your child have no teacher?