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Education

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Holidays

149 replies

dubsie · 08/04/2023 21:47

Holidays are becoming more expensive and this is especially the case during school holidays.

Thanks to the education act we are forced to cramming our holidays into just a few weeks a year and holiday companies know this and can pretty much charge what they want.

A week's holiday in Croatia has just cost me over 2500 for a family of three in a threw star hotel bed and breakfast in May/June The same holiday a week earlier was just 1300.

Isn't it it time that parents are allowed to take their children out of school for a couple of weeks a year so we can enjoy a break together. They are our children and they don't belong to the state .

OP posts:
Singapore4 · 09/04/2023 23:13

Notinhampshirenow · 09/04/2023 23:06

As a teacher I am totally happy for you to take them on holiday at any time as long as you don’t expect me to help them catch up or hold me accountable for results. You see that week - or two - could be when we did multiplication or revisited some grammar I knew your child didn’t get. I can give you a list of what I was going to teach them
and you can crack on.

I find this theory laughable. I take my kid out of school yearly. I had one teacher make a snider remark last year. I just let her crack on I think she was probably jealous.

If your kid is falling behind because of 5 days I would think there's a deeper issue than them being on holiday for a week. No offence.

Ds had the top maths mark in the whole of his class this year. So you can't always assume that kids are "falling so terribly behind"

wankerseverywhere · 09/04/2023 23:15

Facem81 · 09/04/2023 14:48

Don't you think having a holiday is an important learning experience.

I always giggle when I see this

Me too.

A week in a city trekking through historical monuments, museums, etc? Maybe.

Two weeks in a resort in Tenerife? Give me a break.

Singapore4 · 09/04/2023 23:16

Everydayshouldbe · 09/04/2023 22:52

By the same token, policies on holidays in term time don't have to revolve around your situation - we could equally say you should get a job that enables you to pay for term time holidays.

I have a job that does. I just choose not to pay those prices. Don't assume my job role. I work in a hospital so no point me being a TA or similar. Not sure what your point is but it's not logical I wouldn't be paying those prices regardless. I could also go some where cheaper I choose not to. Thanks though 😃

Disneyblueeyes · 09/04/2023 23:16

@Singapore4 you just had to put that little brag about your DS at the end there didn't you?

Singapore4 · 09/04/2023 23:20

@Disneyblueeyes well you were quick enough to add your 2 pence.

LoveQuinnOhDearyMe · 09/04/2023 23:25

To be fair, there used to be a rule across the UK about having up to 2 weeks off in a school year for a holiday. It’s relatively new that this rule doesn’t exist anymore (as in pretty sure the last decade)

I was taken out of primary school 4 times for a fortnight for some big holidays, once in Year 8 (end of year, sister had done GCSEs so family took advantage of her long summer)
Never taken out past Year 8 for obvious reasons.

Like everything, the blanket ban comes from the fact that for some children (and their teachers), missing a week or two will be a monumental disaster. Some children will absolutely fine. Some won’t.

As a teacher, I’m mixed.

As a member of the human population, who doesn’t want basic rights squashed and my life dictated, I think a certain amount of holiday should be allowed.

I work in a prep so my Head can’t do anything about holidays in term time and plenty take them (despite having a 9 week summer, 3 week Easter, 3 week Christmas and 2 week October Half term so plenty of off peak time too). Where I get angry and really annoyed with parents is when they take their child out for a week but want the catch up work. Or expect me to put together a pack of work for them to take with them (normally with no notice). Or complain at parents evening that their child isn’t where they think they should be (because they miss two weeks each term for holidays - yes that’s the case I deal with in my class) and I need to explain myself. And if the child doesn’t achieve what they should be, despite absences over crucial moments, of course it’s the teacher who gets the telling off and the school looks bad.

Where I can support term time holidays is where the parents just don’t have a choice of leave and it’s either a term time holiday or no holiday (and yes I think holidays are very beneficial to families and children despite not being a case of life or death) and where parents fully take responsibility for the missing learning - so one I had this term asked me (albeit 3 days before) what the phonics sounds and high frequency words for the week they were missing, asked for a brief on the maths focus and topic work and child returned up to scratch - I am reception but still. Lower year groups in particular, many aspects could be caught up with if parents take control.

A lot of parents, in reality and for multiple reasons such as needing to keep leave for actual school breaks, won’t actually take their children on holiday term time if it was allowed.

So I’m on the fence. I would be more supportive if schools could allow the holiday (two weeks max a year) but could say to parents basically “tough luck - what your child misses they miss. You want them caught up you do it yourself” and likewise, if a child doesn’t achieve their overall goals, the school should have the right to say “child taken out for two weeks mid term” and not be done in for it. But that’ll never happen.

Then again, private school families and home schooling families can do what they want. It seems daft that it’s not actually compulsory to go to school but if you dare sign your child up for a formal education and miss a bit of time, you could be fined or worse visited by outside agencies on welfare checks. But you could also “unschool” and have your children run feral all day.

Pin me down for an answer? I think parents should have the right to.

Singapore4 · 09/04/2023 23:30

@LoveQuinnOhDearyMe let's be honest it's a money making thing. The fines come from the council. This money doesn't go into the school pot does it? For funding equipment and so on. The GOV couldn't give a flying F about the teachers nor the pupils. Come on at least I own my choices and I'm not going to dress them up.

If they cared so much.... the teachers wouldn't be striking along with the rest.

ohfibonacci · 09/04/2023 23:34

You really don’t like teachers do you @Singapore4? The disdain for them drips off your posts.

HarrietSchulenberg · 09/04/2023 23:35

Factor in the fine and if it's still cheaper, go. Do not expect your kids' teachers to help them catch up on missed work (which can be quite a lot). If you think it's worth it then go.

MomFromSE · 09/04/2023 23:36

@GCWorkNightmare whats your point? My point is the children, their classmates and teachers all suffer when parent take holiday in term time.

@giggly extended holidays isn’t the point. Longer term breaks isn’t the same issue as missing lessons during term time. It’s completely different issue

LoveQuinnOhDearyMe · 09/04/2023 23:39

@Singapore4 thank for assuming I was striking - I actually didn’t , I’m not part of that union.

Most of your paragraph, if you read my post, I actually agree with you. I tried to give a balanced answer? Most kids will be fine missing some time for a holiday. Some kids go completely off the wagon and forget everything after a half term. No the schools don’t get the money and they are not the ones who actually give the fines either. Yes it is a simple money grabbing scheme.

Likewise, I do own my choices thank you very much. I was honest and said I was torn and there’s pros and cons to the issue. But on the whole, again as I said as a person who doesn’t want the government to squash my rights, put on the spot I would say yes parents should have the right to take their children out.

Just because one teacher made a snide comment to you doesn’t mean we all will. I don’t put all parents into one category.

dubsie · 09/04/2023 23:41

I pay nearly 2000 every month in tax, for that I expect my child's education to be pretty good and my family's health care to be the best.

At the moment I don't get either because they are short on teachers, doctors, nurses and the ones that are there are not paid enough.

So while I sympathize with the reality of teaching when you have 30 kids to cater for.....that's not actually what I'm paying for is it. I'm not actually getting good value for money because I'm now also paying private dentists.... because the NHS won't provide, private swimming classes, private healthcare insurance, after school clubs, school meals....

So I wonder how the hell are parents coping when they earn less than 30,000 per year. Don't their children deserve a holiday.

OP posts:
Singapore4 · 09/04/2023 23:47

@LoveQuinnOhDearyMe yes I know it was. Why are you on the defence? I didn't assume YOU were striking I just said teachers in general.

Look everyone is entitled to their opinion and we won't all agree on taking kids out however I notice there's a nasty undertone. I'm not pushing others to do it however I do and will continue to do it.

I am not against a teacher strike however I was pointing out that these laws are not for the pupils sake or the GOV. Infact I'm all for the strikes anybody who wishes to strike I'm all for it...

Mademetoxic · 09/04/2023 23:49

If you do not like how the education system is, you are free to pull out your children and home educate.

Singapore4 · 09/04/2023 23:52

ohfibonacci · 09/04/2023 23:34

You really don’t like teachers do you @Singapore4? The disdain for them drips off your posts.

I do like teachers. But what really fucks me off is how people assume your a terrible parent just because you take your kid on holiday. FFS come on.

If you have a pop expect it back. I support the strikes I whole heartly do and I've not forgotten covid times belive me I worked through it all and sent my kid to a hub. However what I won't tolerate is a shit undertone because perhaps my choices differ from yours is that OK?

My mental health will be no1 priority not DS having 100% percent attendance now if that makes me a bad parent well that's your own opinion 👍

gogohmm · 09/04/2023 23:53

@wankerseverywhere

And ironically educational holidays are not always more expensive in school holidays. I took road trips around Europe with mine to historical sites, museums, cathedrals etc and it was actually reasonable in holidays because they are not popular with parents. My kids I think enjoyed them as they go by themselves now

Notinhampshirenow · 09/04/2023 23:53

Singapore4 · 09/04/2023 23:13

I find this theory laughable. I take my kid out of school yearly. I had one teacher make a snider remark last year. I just let her crack on I think she was probably jealous.

If your kid is falling behind because of 5 days I would think there's a deeper issue than them being on holiday for a week. No offence.

Ds had the top maths mark in the whole of his class this year. So you can't always assume that kids are "falling so terribly behind"

Well the thing is we can’t say to x parent that Johnny is okay at maths so could probably have a week off whilst saying to y parent you can’t go as your child struggles. I’m happy for you to go. Have a lovely time. But don’t ask me to prepare work for your child to do or spend extra time getting them back up to speed. And actually, there are some well quoted figures that demonstrate sat and gcse performance that dips even after missing just 10’days of school per year. So one holiday and a bout of chicken pox and your well performing child may not be top.

ohfibonacci · 10/04/2023 00:00

@Singapore4 No “shit undertone” from me. If you reread my posts you’ll see that my point is clear. I think it is selfish, it affects your child’s learning and others’ learning too. You also made a dig about a “jealous” teacher, an unkind comment about less able children and a pointed comment about the strikes so if anyone has an undertone it’s you.

Singapore4 · 10/04/2023 00:04

ohfibonacci · 10/04/2023 00:00

@Singapore4 No “shit undertone” from me. If you reread my posts you’ll see that my point is clear. I think it is selfish, it affects your child’s learning and others’ learning too. You also made a dig about a “jealous” teacher, an unkind comment about less able children and a pointed comment about the strikes so if anyone has an undertone it’s you.

No. I just stuck up for myself. Don't dish what you can't give. I have never been against strikes what I said was the GOV are not for the teachers so don't dress it up. What are you talking about.

I gave my opinion just like others gave there's the issue is the majority are against taking kids out which I hear.

No undertone from me I wasn't the one making it personal.

Collisionofus77 · 10/04/2023 00:06

Teachers in primary are awful (from my experience) my DD has private tutors which are far better than primary, given all their ridiculous strikes& inset days I have no problem taking DD out of primary

ohfibonacci · 10/04/2023 00:10

Haha @Singapore4 how old are you? Dearie me. 😂

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2023 04:57

Notinhampshirenow · 09/04/2023 23:53

Well the thing is we can’t say to x parent that Johnny is okay at maths so could probably have a week off whilst saying to y parent you can’t go as your child struggles. I’m happy for you to go. Have a lovely time. But don’t ask me to prepare work for your child to do or spend extra time getting them back up to speed. And actually, there are some well quoted figures that demonstrate sat and gcse performance that dips even after missing just 10’days of school per year. So one holiday and a bout of chicken pox and your well performing child may not be top.

Controversial: I think that parents and children who are consistently on top of learning actually should be treated differently in this regard. You should be able to "earn" the right to have a few days off, if it's obvious from your track record that it isn't going to cause any issues.

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2023 05:02

International comparison point:

England's draconian attitude towards taking any time off at all is regarded as unusual in most countries. I think a significant problem is that the curriculum in England varies from school to school an awful lot, and lacks standardized textbooks and workbooks that come home daily, esp in primary.

In school systems where the curriculum is fully centralized and is supported by standardized textbooks that come home and workbooks that come home daily as well, it is much, much easier for parents to simply cover things at home; they don't have to have all this back-and-forth with the teacher trying to work out what is going to be missed. (It also saves a lot of teacher workload, frankly, but that's another thread.)

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2023 05:03

(I am not in the UK, as you can probably work out)

Incognitopah · 10/04/2023 05:07

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2023 05:03

(I am not in the UK, as you can probably work out)

@Kokeshi123 shoukd you earn more days off than your colleagues at work pending performance?