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Original poster

Holidays

149 replies

dubsie · 08/04/2023 21:47

Holidays are becoming more expensive and this is especially the case during school holidays.

Thanks to the education act we are forced to cramming our holidays into just a few weeks a year and holiday companies know this and can pretty much charge what they want.

A week's holiday in Croatia has just cost me over 2500 for a family of three in a threw star hotel bed and breakfast in May/June The same holiday a week earlier was just 1300.

Isn't it it time that parents are allowed to take their children out of school for a couple of weeks a year so we can enjoy a break together. They are our children and they don't belong to the state .

OP posts:
Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2023 05:50

Bad analogy. The company loses out if people work less. Going to school is someone students do for their own benefit!

(and anyway, people in jobs absolutely do get treated differently depending on performance; I mean, performance-linked pay, bonuses? If a company decided to offer some people the option of a few extra days of holiday in lieu of a bonus if they did well at work, I wouldn't be outraged).

Original poster
dubsie · 10/04/2023 08:21

I think this all comes down to the ratio of teachers to children in class. A child taking some time off wouldn't be so much of an issue if there were just 15 children in the class.

I don't know how teachers cope with 30 kids as that should not be the norm. There is simply no way you can do it when you have children of varying abilities all needing custom care. It's no wonder children get left behind.

I was raised in Perth WA and class sizes were as low as ten up to no more than 20. Children got help where they needed it and we didn't start school until 8.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 10/04/2023 08:49

To be fair, there used to be a rule across the UK about having up to 2 weeks off in a school year for a holiday. It’s relatively new that this rule doesn’t exist anymore (as in pretty sure the last decade)

There was never any such rule. The relevant regulations used to say that leave of absence for up to 10 days could be given in special circumstances, with anything over 10 days only being granted in exceptional circumstances. Over time, many parents came to regard this as giving them the absolute right to take their children out of school for a holiday, but that was never what the regulations said. The current regulation do not have any reference to 10 days and say that leave of absence should only be granted in exceptional circumstances.

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2023 08:52

I'm calling BS on Western Australia ever having a school start age of 8. And having society fund tiny classes of 15 kids per teacher with the idea that "this will make it easier for parents to take term-time holidays" is bonkers. Parents need to cover stuff at home if they want to take the kids out of school during term time.

Facem81 · 10/04/2023 08:53

Children got help where they needed it and we didn't start school until 8.

either because you have a 200 mile round journey to the school! Or… you’re talking out of your rear end

Facem81 · 10/04/2023 08:54

Oh and the reason why decades ago in western Perth you only had 15 pupils inthe class was because that was all the demand for that age group at the time considering the distance covered. Oh and you probably had mixed age class

Mademetoxic · 10/04/2023 08:55

dubsie · 10/04/2023 08:21

I think this all comes down to the ratio of teachers to children in class. A child taking some time off wouldn't be so much of an issue if there were just 15 children in the class.

I don't know how teachers cope with 30 kids as that should not be the norm. There is simply no way you can do it when you have children of varying abilities all needing custom care. It's no wonder children get left behind.

I was raised in Perth WA and class sizes were as low as ten up to no more than 20. Children got help where they needed it and we didn't start school until 8.

Again, if you really do not like the English school system, please feel free to home educate your precious darlings.

Facem81 · 10/04/2023 08:59

@Singapore4

Ds had the top maths mark in the whole of his class this year. So you can't always assume that kids are "falling so terribly behind"

Your son is 8!

yellin · 10/04/2023 09:07

Academies can set their own holidays, but usually align them with other local schools. Why? Because parents and teachers often have children at those other local schools, and find it difficult to manage when holidays don't align.

Holiday companies charge more in school holidays because demand is high. If it became the norm for holidays to be taken at other times, then prices would rise at those times. So, @dubsie be careful what you wish for. Curently, families who opt for unauthorised absence can benefit financially, but that "benefit" would evaporate if term time holidays became more common.

evtheria · 10/04/2023 09:10

Facem81 · 09/04/2023 14:48

Don't you think having a holiday is an important learning experience.

I always giggle when I see this

Same!
And I'm the cringe parent who insists on getting some ✨culture✨, practicing maths & money skills with foreign currency, etc.

2 weeks by the hotel pool playing with (likely) other English speaking kids is bloody gorgeous... but not a learning experience - not even a social one that's offering anything they aren't getting in school surrounded by their classmates and friends now.

evtheria · 10/04/2023 09:11

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2023 05:02

International comparison point:

England's draconian attitude towards taking any time off at all is regarded as unusual in most countries. I think a significant problem is that the curriculum in England varies from school to school an awful lot, and lacks standardized textbooks and workbooks that come home daily, esp in primary.

In school systems where the curriculum is fully centralized and is supported by standardized textbooks that come home and workbooks that come home daily as well, it is much, much easier for parents to simply cover things at home; they don't have to have all this back-and-forth with the teacher trying to work out what is going to be missed. (It also saves a lot of teacher workload, frankly, but that's another thread.)

Very interesting point here

VikingVolva · 10/04/2023 09:16

Singapore4 · 09/04/2023 22:11

Private schools mange fine, during covid the kids had to mange, with the teachers strike kids are also having to manage with work books.

It's supply and demand OP whilst people pay these prices.....

Show quote history

Private schools don't have the same issues - and if they don't like your attendance patterns they'll ask you to leave (or tell you to buy tutoring catch up)

Disruption that affects the entire class/school is also a completely different issue because teacher plan for everyone around the event. It's not continual one or two (or more) needing catching up, taking time/effort from the rest of the class. It's done for sickness and unavoidable absences. That doesn't mean the burden/detriment should fall on teachers/other pupils.

And who's going to pay for supply cover so that teachers can take their DC in holiday?

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2023 09:17

yellin · 10/04/2023 09:07

Academies can set their own holidays, but usually align them with other local schools. Why? Because parents and teachers often have children at those other local schools, and find it difficult to manage when holidays don't align.

Holiday companies charge more in school holidays because demand is high. If it became the norm for holidays to be taken at other times, then prices would rise at those times. So, @dubsie be careful what you wish for. Curently, families who opt for unauthorised absence can benefit financially, but that "benefit" would evaporate if term time holidays became more common.

Curently, families who opt for unauthorised absence can benefit financially, but that "benefit" would evaporate if term time holidays became more common.

Not really, because the whole point is that demand would be more evenly distributed throughout the year rather than peaking at particular times.

I can think of arguments against allowing TT holidays, but being honest, yes, it would result in less price-gauging.

yellin · 10/04/2023 09:22

Kokeshi123 · 10/04/2023 09:17

Curently, families who opt for unauthorised absence can benefit financially, but that "benefit" would evaporate if term time holidays became more common.

Not really, because the whole point is that demand would be more evenly distributed throughout the year rather than peaking at particular times.

I can think of arguments against allowing TT holidays, but being honest, yes, it would result in less price-gauging.

Show quote history

I respectfully disagree. It would increase denand in term time, but the demand in school holidays is so phenomenally high that even if it was slightly reduced it would still be high enough to keep prices at current levels. (You would have to have no school holidays at all, and no seasons, for the demand to be evenly distributed).

RoseAndRose · 10/04/2023 09:26

Academies can set their own holidays, but usually align them with other local schools. Why? Because parents and teachers often have children at those other local schools, and find it difficult to manage when holidays don't align

So do all VA schools - who have always been able to do this, right from before the founding of state education. But don't, because too disruptive. It's bad enough when you live near a boundary and the spring half term or the Easter hols don't match (happens from time to time), let alone it happening to everyone every year.

RampantIvy · 10/04/2023 09:35

I pay nearly 2000 every month in tax,

If you are earning enough to pay that much in tax then surely you can afford to go during the school holidays.

Facem81 · 10/04/2023 09:45

@dubsie

I pay nearly 2000 every month in tax

oh bull shit you do op

mondaytosunday · 10/04/2023 09:52

You're looking at it the wrong way round. Maybe airlines/hotels etc should have a cap on how much they can increase prices during peak times.

Lulu1919 · 10/04/2023 09:57

I don't have school aged children

Original poster
dubsie · 10/04/2023 11:26

When your spending nearly 3000 for a weeks stay in a three star hotel in May/June then clearly even those on middle incomes are going to find the August holidays challenging. So imagine what it's like for someone earning just 25,000 or even less. Many teachers and TAs don't have the choice which if you think about it if we could somehow stagger the holiday seasons or allow children off during term times this would put a downward pressure on prices during the peak months.

Another issue is capacity....we simply can't supply the space for everyone going away at the same time, infrastructure can't cope nor can the ports or airports. Going to France in August is surely proof of that, it's completely unsustainable as population grows and demand increases

My point really is all children deserve a holiday, it's important. Whether that's a week in Cromer or a trip to the Maldives, children don't care as long as they get to make some friends and get away from the stress of modern school life. If we end up with a situation where groups of children don't get a break then I fear what's coming....

OP posts:
Mademetoxic · 10/04/2023 11:36

dubsie · 10/04/2023 11:26

When your spending nearly 3000 for a weeks stay in a three star hotel in May/June then clearly even those on middle incomes are going to find the August holidays challenging. So imagine what it's like for someone earning just 25,000 or even less. Many teachers and TAs don't have the choice which if you think about it if we could somehow stagger the holiday seasons or allow children off during term times this would put a downward pressure on prices during the peak months.

Another issue is capacity....we simply can't supply the space for everyone going away at the same time, infrastructure can't cope nor can the ports or airports. Going to France in August is surely proof of that, it's completely unsustainable as population grows and demand increases

My point really is all children deserve a holiday, it's important. Whether that's a week in Cromer or a trip to the Maldives, children don't care as long as they get to make some friends and get away from the stress of modern school life. If we end up with a situation where groups of children don't get a break then I fear what's coming....

Again. Why do you not home educate your children if you think that the education system does not work for you?

Children do not get a break. They have 6 weeks for summer, 2 weeks for easter/Christmas. Half terms dotted around.
What a load of trash you talk that children do not get breaks.

yellin · 10/04/2023 15:53

dubsie · 10/04/2023 11:26

When your spending nearly 3000 for a weeks stay in a three star hotel in May/June then clearly even those on middle incomes are going to find the August holidays challenging. So imagine what it's like for someone earning just 25,000 or even less. Many teachers and TAs don't have the choice which if you think about it if we could somehow stagger the holiday seasons or allow children off during term times this would put a downward pressure on prices during the peak months.

Another issue is capacity....we simply can't supply the space for everyone going away at the same time, infrastructure can't cope nor can the ports or airports. Going to France in August is surely proof of that, it's completely unsustainable as population grows and demand increases

My point really is all children deserve a holiday, it's important. Whether that's a week in Cromer or a trip to the Maldives, children don't care as long as they get to make some friends and get away from the stress of modern school life. If we end up with a situation where groups of children don't get a break then I fear what's coming....

You must have had a very sheltered life if you think all choldren have had holidays until recent times. Mass market travel is a relatively recent phenomenon. More children are having holidays away from home than ever before in history. But our population has also increased, and so it is unsustainable for everyone to travel, whether at the same time or not. The sustainable solution is for most people to be happy with holidays closer to home, or at home, not more travel.

MissLucyLiu · 10/04/2023 15:57

Sorry do not agree. Not everyone is going to be able to 'catch up' on school and given the teachers are already VERY STRETCHED (ask any teacher you know). You are asking for the impossible where everyone is taking out their kids at different time because they want to go on holiday for a lower price.

Is it you that wants to go on the holiday or the kids. If you cannot afford to go to the holiday it doesn't mean you HAVE TO GO.

Bernadinetta · 10/04/2023 16:05

I was going to reply to the OP’s original point but see it’s descended into the usual teacher bashing.

Anyway, my point was going to be- why can’t more be done to regulate the travel and tourism industry to even out the disparity in costs between term time and school holidays, rather than putting the onus on schools to have to cope with this? Capitalism at its worst.

Sherrystrull · 10/04/2023 16:29

Collisionofus77 · 10/04/2023 00:06

Teachers in primary are awful (from my experience) my DD has private tutors which are far better than primary, given all their ridiculous strikes& inset days I have no problem taking DD out of primary

Ffs. Take a moment to educate yourself as you are coming across as very ignorant.

Strikes are for pay and conditions. Wanting better for your children and our children.

Inset days are taken out of school holidays. They aren't additional to holidays.

Private tutors working 1:1 are better at getting results from your child than a teacher with a class of 30. Wow, that's surprising news.