Is this a safeguarding issue

[CandyLeBonBon]

Hi
A TA at my DD's high school has just left. No longer a TA - doing something different I think.

My DD really liked her (I've never met her) and asked for her email. TA gave it to her and they've been chatting. I've read the emails, and there's nothing untoward but I feel very uncomfortable about this and feel it's crossing a safeguarding boundary - if it was public befriending on SM (no option toDM) I'd be fine as it's visible, but this feels off - must adults don't want or need 14y/o pupils as friends.

Am I being overly cautious or would you also be concerned that this is a breach of safeguarding boundaries and probably unethical?

What are the messages? Is it your DC mostly instigating or the former TA?

I had a former employee - quite junior but over 18 who wanted to maintain contact because they viewed me as a mentor. I wasn’t especially keen, but didn’t want to say no in the face of their enthusiasm. They message occasionally 5 years on and I always respond with vaguely supportive comments. It is all driven by them, not me.

Know this isn’t directly comparable as ages a bit different, but the mindset might be the same? She cared for your DC and doesn’t want to reject them, so responds, but isn’t instigating contact?

maybe the rules should be different given ages, but I can totally see how this situation might occur with the best of intentions and no actual harm done. Obviously if the former TA is instigating contact / sending questionably messages, it is a different situation, but the mere fact of contact doesn’t raise flags for me.

Fair advice

I think we should also consider the TA, if we give her the benefit of the doubt and assume (just assume) she is innocent, but daft, naive, whatever, someone really needs to have a quiet word with her before she gets herself in trouble.

I worked with a guy once who had an (unfounded) report made against him, mainly due to his casual attitude to the job of teaching, he went through hell with the process, suspension, etc etc.. before being totally exonerated, took about 6 months!

The school may not have any authority over the TA now, but someone might drop her a line to make her aware of the concern raised, which might be enough, if she is an innocent, to help her make the right choice and desist.

Yes. I understand your points. But a vulnerable 14 y/o us not the same scenario. And safeguarding training is a key part of onboarding in schools.

As I said, it's the fact that she will have done safeguarding training and still not realise the potential optics regarding her behaviour that leaves not only my dd but her open to problems.

I used to work in a school as a tech 10 years ago and this stuff was absolutely drummed into me then.

She wasn't there very long, from what I can gather, which again, just makes me question her motivation. But I have asked what the school policy is in this case, and my dd has agreed to let me check her emails periodically to make sure all is above board.

I know a pupil who, once they became an adult, ended up marrying their school teacher! I found that odd.

I work in a school. We are told not to maintain personal relationships with children. Neither are we to accept friend requests from students on social media. This is part of our safeguarding standards. They are there for a reason.

I would imagine even if we left the school this would still apply. We're adults so we don't need to build social relationships with children, only professional ones. We're also in a position of trust so we should we want to have former students as 'friends'.

If we leave a school we don't need to message any students to 'keep in touch'. Students need to realise that moving on is a part of life that we all have to go through so keeping in touch is unnecessary. These safeguarding rules are there for a reason.

This TA is being unprofessional and if anything goes wrong it would be difficult for her to answer for her actions as she is going against the safeguarding policy. I wonder how many other children she is keeping in touch with.

Yes it is a safe guarding issue. If a male teacher was messaging a 14 year old girl would people think differently? Probably all innocent but you cannot take that risk that maxine woteva her name is who went to prison was a teaching assistant they cannot cross the line tell school.

As others have mentioned already, every year we get safeguarding training and we sign that we have read and understood it. These rules have been put in place to protect everyone. The fact that things like this are happening, shows that there will always be some people who feel the rules don't apply to them. I would talk to the school about this tbh.

Frenulumetta · Today 01:38

Yes it is a safe guarding issue. If a male teacher was messaging a 14 year old girl would people think differently? Probably all innocent but you cannot take that risk that maxine woteva her name is who went to prison was a teaching assistant they cannot cross the line tell school.

So true!

i think you should tell the school.
let us know what happens.
good luck.

A very sensible post.

I would follow this advice.

Know this isn’t directly comparable as ages a bit different, but the mindset might be the same? She cared for your DC and doesn’t want to reject them, so responds, but isn’t instigating contact?
She's still encouraging it though, even if she doesn't send the first email.

Your situation is closer to a member of staff leaving and giving a couple of GCSE /A Level students an alternative email when they ask if they can have a reference or ask about university courses. The former students my might email now and then, but the tone is friendly and professional.

In this situation there's an adult who is encouraging and sustaining an unprofessional conversation with a vulnerable young person.

Even if we don't jump to the worst case scenario, I could easily see a situation where the relationship continues to be inappropriately friendly, the child is invested and sees the relationship as a close friendship and at some point when the TA realises it's inappropriate, they pull back and the child is left emotionally confused, hurt or angry that their 'friend' is dumping them.
The time that OP's child is investigating in this relationship is time they could be spending investing in age-appropriate peer relationships. This would be much healthier in the long run.

I think I would be entirely driven by the contact. If it's just social niceties how are you hiescthe new job what are you doing this weekend. This is pointless a 14yr old doesnt need this from an ax TA. If its support still with her education. I am thinking of pursuing such and such at GCSE. Can you recommend a good book on physics. I wouldn't be happy but I would want to see the exchanges.

I wouldn't be unhappy. I need to get my glasses!!

I think this is 100% a safeguarding issue. Report to the school. There might well be very good reasons why this person didn’t stay long at the school and working in a school is not a way for adults to make friends with vulnerable children.

Trust me, appropriate safeguarding procedures are not causing the recruitment and retention crisis in teaching. Teachers aren’t upset that they can’t exchange personal contact details with teenagers, at least not teachers that you would want in the classroom. Teachers have a life outside of school and generally don’t want school life intruding into it.

I’d be very uncomfortable about this. IMO it’s a safeguarding issue and needs to be reported so that the school can improve training or whatever.

I had my social media scrutinised when I got a job at a school where I knew some parents socially and had them and their older teens added.

Some I deleted as housekeeping, others I set to not share some updates with. It really is a massive no-no for school staff to communicate with kids outside the school 'environment' which includes email to personal accounts, and after they've moved on.

Even though this TA is now employed elsewhere she still does have a 'position of authority' over a child as that relationship has been established within school. It's hugely professionally inappropriate for contact that YOU are unhappy about to continue outside the 'safety' of the protection of school. Please do report.

I can understand how your daughter may wish to continue communicating with this young woman, and see her as a sort of older sister type figure.
I think this type of role though is best within a structure. So either a relative or friend of the family that has an equally close relationship to child's parents and therefore would be able to easily involve them should it be necessary. Otherwise someone who fills this role within a context with boundaries, a school councillor etc. and so meeting and chats were out in the open.
If it were my daughter I'd say,
look, I understand it's nice to have someone you trust to exchange news and chat with, but you are potentially putting her in a difficult situation because as an adult she most likely will feel a sense of responsibility both in what she writes to you and also in what you write to her. Explain that while she was working at school she would have had more senior people with whom she could confide should she hear something from a young person that worried her. This is no longer available to her, and therefore makes carrying on regular communication problematic.

The kind of ongoing contact I get from pupils is invariably school related and sporadic, an email will pop into the in box at work from an ex pupil letting me know their GCSE results, the options they have chosen for A level, that they have got engaged etc etc. my reply will ultimately be fairly standard "delighted to here that, all well here, schools the same etc.."

It is rare indeed for an ex pupil to ask educational advice, they would generally seek that from their current teachers, and I really couldn't see advice of any merit coming from a TA who was only in the role a short time -

As it seems this TA only worked in education / at the school a short time I think it is deffo worth mentioning it to the school, it could well be they were let go for not observing professional boundaries or somesuch.

I'd also mention it to the school, not sure what they can do now the TA has left but I would also find this unprofessional and would feel uncomfortable with it. There isn't really a need for a TA to stay in touch via personal email with a 14 year old they met in an environment with an imbalance of power.

Exactly that

If they left because of some professionalism issue then possibly they will be able to do something. I would thing the DSL (dedicated safeguarding lead) at the school would be able to escalate it to the county safeguarding hub as a concern even if they have left - it might go no further, it might not need to go further - but at least it will be noted, if other complaints come on of have come in then that would (should) cause a response.

The TA may also need a reference at some point in the future.

My point about the time frame for this type of regulation wasn't to say that it didn't matter, but to say that the TA may not be aware due to having been in touch with former teachers from their own time in school, because that was likely over 10 years ago.

I think this nails it. Good Teachers / TAs know where boundaries are.

I think this nails it. Good Teachers / TAs know where boundaries are.
Exactly this.
Any adult wanting to cultivate a friendship or unprofessionally close relationship with a vulnerable 14 year old child is flying a trail of 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 behind them.

Either:
They are naive and foolish, in which case that's a big red flag for not understanding professional boundaries
Or:
They know what professional boundaries should be and are choosing to pursue a friendship with a child.

I actually find it scary that people on this thread who claim to be teachers and know about safeguarding say that there is not a safeguarding issue.

I think this nails it. Good Teachers / TAs know where boundaries are.
This is exactly the point.
She is no longer legally under contract to the school, but it will have been drummed into her that she should not have contact outside of school with kids, and as many pp have said that is usually for a 2 year period.
So she KNOWS that this is poor practice.

The TA in this instance may be 100% inoocent, but with an adult how has ill intent this is exactly what grooming is.

also:
but this is not the case if the relationship starts somewhere else, and it happens to be between staff and students in an educational setting, eg, church, family friend, sports club, etc.
My dd is a member of a church youth club. I can assure you that their safeguarding is every bit as strict if not stricter. There is no way any adult int he congregation would be encouraged to have exclusive friendships with any of the teens. All emails and messages to and from leaders must be in a group context with other leaders or parents copied in.
My son's football club was the same 10 years ago.

UPDATE:

I emailed school just broadly outlining the situation and asking for a copy of their policy on contact between ex staff and current pupils (didn't mention ex staff name or anything).

Director of safeguarding got back to me and said yes, it's a cause for concern, and I was right to raise it, and she said she will phone me today to discuss matters.

Will keep you posted.

Thanks for your comments all!