Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Falling pupil numbers into the next decade: impacts, thoughts?

120 replies

greenteafiend · 13/03/2023 00:54

(Apologies if there is already a thread about this)

The number of births in the UK seems to be on a gentle decline which started from about 2009 (as the financial crisis hit) and never really recovered. I think this is likely to continue, as all the trends causing people to reduce/delay kids seem to be ongoing, and immigrants increasingly seem to adopt similar fertility patterns to locals quite quickly these days (as opposed to a couple of decades ago, when foreign-born mothers seemed to have a lot more kids than local-born mothers). We've just had a "bulge year" for secondary intake, but it's likely that secondary numbers will start to go down quite soon.

There is no dramatic falloff across the whole of the UK, but I am guessing that the fall will be uneven, with some areas seeing steady or slightly-increasing numbers of kids entering school, while a few areas see significant falls.

I'm wondering what people in some areas are starting to see already, and what impacts this could potentially have in term of school choice, funding, the level of demand for private or selective schools, and possibly even mergers/closures in certain areas.

OP posts:
toomuchlaundry · 15/03/2023 08:25

If the Government are thinking of changing ratios in nursery maybe they will change class cap for KS1

cupofdecaf · 15/03/2023 08:41

Locally the primary school told me they used to have apx 60 per year and now it's 45.
I know of a secondary school that's had funding issues because they didn't plan ahead for a drop in numbers and therefore reduced funding.
Loads of new builds going up round us so we hoped they'd be more young children but doesn't seem to be working out that way.

user1477391263 · 15/03/2023 11:26

In Japan, where I am, one solution that has been used in cases of falling numbers is to amalgamate elementary schools (6yo-12yo) with local junior high schools (12yo-15yo), actually within the same building. Not sure if something like that might work in the UK. Or, use primary schools for providing nursery facilities as well?

Karwomannghia · 15/03/2023 11:32

toomuchlaundry · 15/03/2023 08:10

@Karwomannghia there’s a huge need but no funding. It costs a lot more to fund a special school

Yeah wishful thinking!

TwoLittleTerrors · 15/03/2023 11:37

We are seeing huge impacts of school number reductions already. All our local primary schools are not full in Year R. The cohort starting in September 2023 is the same.

This is a document from Hamsphire documents.hants.gov.uk/education/HampshireSchoolPlacePlan.pdf

You can see a lot of areas will have a 20% surplus forecasted in 2027.

TwoLittleTerrors · 15/03/2023 11:40

If you look at the document I linked, on page 3 there is a graph on primary and secondary intakes. It shows clearly what the overall prediction is. But you can also see district wise, there are very uneven distributions. Like on page 10, the Basingstoke & Deane district, there is a area with 34.8% surplus predicted and another two with 22% and 23% shortage.

manontroppo · 15/03/2023 11:53

I have been banging on about this for about 10 years - I was a governor of a small rural primary school that struggled with numbers and is now really hard up against it because of the stark link between bums on seats and funding. The "big" years here are the current Y5/6/7 and then numbers shrink quite significantly.

The problem in our area is made worse by education being a county council responsibility, and planning being a district council. Our village would be transformed by about 30 family houses, yet the parish and district council will not consider any development in small villages, which are limited to max 8 houses, unless they are exception sites. The parish council is generally inhabited by NIMBYs who are well past family age; it took a determined and long campaign to get them to understand that no development = no sustainable school.

Our county council is already closing a small village primary due to lack of catchment children. Losing a village school will rip the heart out of the village.

remonstrations · 15/03/2023 14:02

Forever42 · 15/03/2023 07:36

I think a lot of strategic planning has to be done on a local level, which it generally isn't I have been teaching since she he early 2000s. In about 2005/6 two local secondaries were knocked down and primaries had to reduce classes because of falling rolls. Then numbers increased and they had to rebuild the two schools that were knocked down and build new primary schools. I guess if we are on a longer-term downward trend then it will cause issues but that will vary regionally.

I work in a one-form entry primary and small primaries are always the most vulnerable to falling rolls so I do keep in mind that I might not be able to finish my days there.

Planning is done by local authorities. Every area has someone responsible for this. Local directors for school place planning have to justify their forecasts to the DfE. The DfE even publishes "score cards" on the accuracy of the forecasts in each area: www.gov.uk/government/statistics/local-authority-school-places-scorecards-2021

manontroppo · 15/03/2023 14:14

@remonstrations that website is very helpful, thanks!

Jules912 · 15/03/2023 14:17

DCs previously very oversubscribed school isn't full in reception this year and won't be next year. Neither is the school just up the road - they both have about 80 for next year so imagine one will lose a class soon.
Conversely DS is in year 6 and there was a noticeable drop in catchment at every high school on results day.

remonstrations · 15/03/2023 14:38

If you google the name of your local authority and the words School Place Planning Strategy you'll find out what's going on in your local area. Local authority websites are a rich source of information if you delve into them, so its worth looking if you're worried.

Our LA recently had a 2 hour committee meeting to scrutinise its 85 page strategy in detail, and the recording is available online. So it's easy actually very easy to be informed about these things.

Forever42 · 15/03/2023 17:05

remonstrations · 15/03/2023 14:02

Planning is done by local authorities. Every area has someone responsible for this. Local directors for school place planning have to justify their forecasts to the DfE. The DfE even publishes "score cards" on the accuracy of the forecasts in each area: www.gov.uk/government/statistics/local-authority-school-places-scorecards-2021

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I know there is planning done but it never seems very strategic - ie, very short term thinking, not considering how numbers could fluctuate. Schools being knocked down and then more schools built a few years later, rather than temporarily repurposing.

Forever42 · 15/03/2023 17:07

Of course it might just be my area that is shite. Another thought - now there are so many MATs, are they involved in strategic planning? Could a MAT choose to close a school it doesn't seem viable without consultation with the local authority? Or expand a school?

remonstrations · 15/03/2023 17:35

Forever42 · 15/03/2023 17:07

Of course it might just be my area that is shite. Another thought - now there are so many MATs, are they involved in strategic planning? Could a MAT choose to close a school it doesn't seem viable without consultation with the local authority? Or expand a school?

MATs and individidual academy trusts can't reduce intake without a formal admissions policy consultation. They can increase their intake (without consultation), so long as they let the LA know in good time before places are allocated. They can't unilaterally close a school - they have a funding agreement with the DfE - but if they were struggling to balance the books, the DfE could serve notice on them and either hand the reigns over to another trust or shut the school down.

user1477391263 · 15/03/2023 22:47

One possible way, if one is thinking far ahead, is to close schools year by year, rather than closing the entire school all at once, so that kids are aging out of the school cohort by cohort rather than experiencing disruption. But of course, nobody wants to close a school, so it is tempting to sort of ignore the warning signs and keep a school going until the red light is flashing and the school has to be closed rapidly to avoid a budgetary black hole. Just saw that the Economist had an article about this this week, in the America section. Of course, the situation in the States is much more serious, due to the flight from public schools during and since the pandemic, which has not happened in the UK.

Marchsnowstorms · 15/03/2023 23:29

CherryBlossom100 · 15/03/2023 08:01

I work in a London Borough and we have shut one class year 1 and reception already. This is almost completely a permanent decision as its hard to get the numbers to open that class in later years. We think that future years will be the same, turning the school from a 6 form school to a 5 form.
This could mean redundancy if staff don't leave on their own accord as schools are funded by number of children on roll, not by number of potential classes.

That's one of the titan primaries that expanded to cope with demand?

Marchsnowstorms · 15/03/2023 23:30

Karwomannghia · 15/03/2023 08:08

There’s a huge need for special schools so plenty of opportunity there to repurpose a school.

This with bells on

PettsWoodParadise · 16/03/2023 22:52

This happened when I was going to school in the 80s, they shut a range of schools and then built housing developments on the land. Roll forward and they were trying to find locations for new schools about 15 years ago. One school that had been turned in the 80s to an adult education centre reverted to a school, other schools were expanded, others were new builds.

soffa · 20/03/2023 20:33

We've just had a "bulge year" for secondary intake, but it's likely that secondary numbers will start to go down quite soon.

I think the bulge is still coming through for at least another year.

The issue with falling rolls is that funding is based on headcount.

I'm in London & there are primaries with catchments that used to be tiny now with spare spaces. I think its going to make the good schools even more desirable tbh.

CurlsnSunshinetime4tea · 15/12/2023 16:40

Long term though the lower birth rate bodes well for future housing.

SomeoneYouLoved · 15/12/2023 16:44

Plus a lot more parents are choosing home education.

TheNinthLock · 15/12/2023 16:48

I work in our local primary. A previously oversubscribed school now has up to 10 vacancies per class.
Finances dire and struggling as running a 3 form entry school with one third empty. (huge amount of SEN without EHCPs thus without funding)
Amalgamating classes next year and dropping to 2 form entry. Further redundancies on the cards.

DragonMama3 · 15/12/2023 20:32

A lot of smaller rural schools have been closed because of this.

DragonMama3 · 15/12/2023 20:33

SomeoneYouLoved · 15/12/2023 16:44

Plus a lot more parents are choosing home education.

It's a lot easier and affordable.