Not sure what to do here, regarding DD’s education

[CutiePatooties]

Hi guys,

I am after a bit of advice please.

DD started year 1 in September and we had a parent consultation in November, where her teacher told us that she is very capable but her behaviour is a problem (constant talking/distracting herself and others, etc). The teacher went on to say that she will have to be ‘more strict’ with her due to this, in order to help her achieve her potential. I agreed with this and said I am all for DD understanding that her actions have consequences- i.e- missing break time to finish her work if she’s not cooperating during the lesson, etc. We apologised for her distracting others, had a talk with her about the importance of behaving at school and even took her computer away for a week as some form of consequence that we could follow through with at home.

fast forward to a mid-year report, where she’s graded at expected in all areas but the recommendation to move her to greater depth would be for her ‘to be more focussed,’ and this was put down as a recommendation for us as parents to follow. I was wracking my brains with how to achieve this… so I told her whenever she has a good day at school (they hand out stickers), I would tick it on our chart at home and if she got 3 ticks in a week, we would reward her with a treat. This worked some weeks, but then she came home with no stickers and we wasn’t sure if she’d stopped caring about the rewards or if school had run out of stickers (HAHA!)

anyway, we had another parent consultation yesterday and both of us are now at a loss for what WE can do at home. Her teacher said the exact same things that she said in November. DD is bright, clever, capable, can reach greater depth if she stops chatting to others, stops getting up from her seat and distracting others and starts listening to input. Teacher mentioned she has her sat right under her nose during input, yet DD still doesn’t listen- fidgets on the carpet, touches/talks to others, loudest in the class, doesn’t finish her work, etc. Teacher said she gives DD countless warnings when she should only be giving one warning really, so I said ‘just give her one warning then,’ as I started to become exasperated with it all. I mentioned again that if she’s distracting others then this is terrible and if she needs to miss break time, or sit away from other pupils and work on her own, etc then we are on board with that. Whatever will help her improve and also stop her disrupting others.

I asked her teacher if we can do anything to help and she just kept repeating what DD’s behaviour is like, instead of telling us what we can do to help the situation.

I suppose I’m on here to ask:
1- what can we do as parents to help DD focus more in class/improve her behaviour?
2- am I right in thinking that if her behaviour was stopping her from being at greater depth in November, that it should’ve been dealt with by March?

we have a good relationship with her teacher and do not want to ruin that and also don’t want to complain or cause an issue if there’s nothing really to worry about. On the other hand, we are a bit annoyed to find out that her behaviour is still an issue and holding her back from meeting her potential. The annoying thing is, she doesn’t display these behaviours at home. She whizzes through homework without a complaint, asks to read to me, sits down at the dining table going over number bonds, etc. She seems to want to do the work at home, then play/mess around at school and I wish it was the other way around!

any help/advice would be GRATEFULLY appreciated. Thanks in advance.

@Comefromaway @FloatingBean @UnbeatenMum I think it would be a good idea to have a meeting with her teacher and the SENCO. I haven’t approached the SENCO with any of this.

what can we do as parents to help DD focus more in class/improve her behaviour?

Many kids today have the attention span of a gnat because they get overloaded with multiple input (electronic images and sounds from multiple sources, doing three things at once, people moving from room to room, parents attention diverting to phones etc) .

Teach her to focus (in rhe home and every day life) by reducing the sensory input. Hold her attention for longer periods. You can't just tell her to pay attention and leave her to it. You have to do it with her, you staying focussed too, as her role model.

Eat meals all together, sitting on chairs at the table, with TV, phones, screens all OFF. DD stays on her chair through the meal. You all talk to each other. While one person speaks, the others listen and don't interrupt or talk across them. You model thoughtful co-operation and good manners appropriate to the occasion. ( setting the table, passing dishes,, offering bread, clearing the table).

All those skills are transferable to the classroom, sitting at work table with other kids, taking turns, listening , not interrupting, speaking voice not shouting.

Play WITH HER games and activities that require sustained focussed attention; card and board games, craft work, jigsaws, sewing, reading together; and don't have any distractions like the TV/music/radio on at the same time , or screens etc.

When she watches TV, she just watches TV; preferably with an adult who can help sustain her interest and attention on the program in a fun casual way. If you're watching a drama, talk about what;s going on, point out details. She should be able to watch TV attentively for at least 20 to 30 minutes. So pick interesting stimulating programs.

Set her small tasks that she can successfully accomplish and make sure she finishes them (tidying toys, setting table). Some like peeling/chopping veg/mixing cake/washing car will need your supervision and your attention. This mimics the range of individual and shared instructions/expectations of class room.

When you're out and about, on foot in car, talk to her about what you see and hear, play attention games like I Spy, counting red cars, dogs etc.

Make sure there's there's a sensory reduction at bedtime; a routine of calm play, bath, story, dim light, NO SCREENs, leave her in peace to sleep.

@2bazookas thank you so much! I really appreciate you taking the time out to write all of that helpful advice. We do some of those things, but not all of them.

Wish I had posted this sooner as the advice on here has been amazing. Thank you everyone.

Sounds like ADHD. Try a few sensory things to keep her focused, wobble cushion for chair, kick bands also for the chair, fidget toys, brain breaks where she can go a little walk to get some energy out.

How does she sleep at night?

I absolutely agree with @Mischance

I also think this sounds exactly like ADHD and I would pursue a diagnosis and read up on it.

I agree with the advice to practice focus at home - not school related but following a recipe to bake something and do the washing up, sort the socks and pack away, slightly longer board games. A mixture of fun things and less fun but showing that if we just concentrate and do it, that's better in the long run

@Kirstylvsya she goes to bed at 7, but tends to take an hour to actually fall asleep, then she’ll sleep right through until 5.30/6ish. Very rarely will wake up during the night.

@Twintrouble1234 thank you, I’m really looking forward to seeing if this has a positive impact.

I have gained so much from you all, that I honestly can’t thank you all enough 💐

I now have a plan of action:
• give DD tasks and play games at home which are focus-based with no distractions.
•keep school and home separate in terms of misdemeanours and sanctions.
•speak to the GP and SENCO to see if we need to get an assessment for ADHD (looking at the symptoms I am quite shocked at how many she actually has!)
•calm down a bit with regards to her education - she is only 6 and I think I am a bit OTT about it all, which doesn’t help things.
•if needed, get her some sensory aids.

That sounds perfect OP. I'd get the sensory aids anyway, lots are very cheap and you can try them out at home and see if they help her stay on task.

"school being dismissive of red flags".
What if the school doesn't recognise or know what red flags are??

Because sen isn't taught at pgce and most senco have no idea what sen are either.

Unfortunately op your poor dd is swimming in a sea of ignorant people.
Why and how this situation has been allowed to go on like this for so long is beyond me. Why sen modules a re not mandatory? Why Senco aren't made to have a certain level of proficient training??

It's the blind leading the blind with the child caught in the middle

2back

Also has some great tips and I've naturally done the similar with my own dd.

It was a huge achievement to get her through the old Audrey Hepburn, sabrina film. I knew then that she was coming on because its not all mad action.

Please please get her assessed for adhd undiagnosed adhd can lead to awful consequences when they hit adolescence and the expectations of school/life get higher. They then often cannot cope. My dd was diagnosed at 17yrs and the years before that were..,.difficult to say the least.
Adhd assessments have a huge waiting list these days (camhs can be up to 3 yrs in some areas!) so I would get that ball rolling asap.

The school need to deliver the outcomes in a way that best meets your DC needs. She's too young to be sitting at a desk for more than 15 minutes max. Education can be delivered with motor feedback breaks, sensory play, outside time and Play. Support staff are essential. It sounds like your dc is being expected to 'fit' into a regime which clearly is not meeting her needs!!!

I also agree with snowday. It seems unbelievable to me the school haven't suggested adhd before now. Punishment for behaviour she literally cannot help will do more harm than good.

Be more strict with her! Honestly...

Getting an appointment with an Occupational Therapist might be useful. I had a child in my class who couldn't sit still and her mom brought her to an OT who gave her some really great things to do at home and it really helped. Sometimes it is genuinely impossible physically for a child to sit still and punishment is not the answer. Having a little one miss her break when running around is what she needs is bad practice. Think it's time for teacher to realise there is more going on and even having that in mind means finding strategies to help rather than seeing this as a behaviour issue. Maybe she needs headphones to be able to concentrate on her tasks. Poor little thing she is only starting school and that classroom could be a very uncomfortable place for with her sensory issues.
I would start with an Occupational Therapist.

Well, I felt really positive last night with having a plan, however, after talking to hubby I’m feeling deflated and have realised I’m going to have to tackle this on my own.

I read off the symptoms of adhd in children (on the nhs website) and he just kept saying, ‘yes, but she’s 6,’ or ‘yes, like other 6 year olds…’ then went on to say: ‘can her teacher not manage her behaviour? Is it normal to let your class get up out of their seats? Would she not have learned about behaviour management during her degree or training? Is her teacher saying she can’t control a 6 year old?’ Then went on to say: ‘it’s not our job to control her while she’s at school. If her teacher can’t control a 6 year old then she’s in the wrong job… I’m paying her out of my taxes. What am I paying her for?’

so as you can see, I’m not getting support from this end!!

DD woke up this morning and wanted to create her own story so I joined in with her (we both made our own separate stories) and I just let her stick to one task, turned off the tele, no noise etc as suggested by a PP. Hubby derailed this for a bit - brought baby over and plonked her on the table… she’s sat grabbing pencils etc and DD had a little meltdown because her sis had taken her pencils 🙄 came completely off task for a bit, shouted at hubby and told him to ‘go away’ took a while to get her back on track, told hubby to leave us to it and eventually she had made a really sweet little story that she was proud of.

Again, I’m on my own with that, as he disrupted us, so I’m not sure this task has really taught her anything. I did tell him last night that my plan was to do more focus-based tasks and that she’ll need no distractions but obviously he hasn’t taken this seriously at all. Think I’m going to be caught between a teacher who thinks DD is just misbehaving and a hubby who thinks we shouldn’t do anything to try and help the situation as he sees this as a problem for her teacher to deal with.

it’s not even 12pm yet and I feel like I need a stiff drink! Wish me luck with this guys!!

Childhood is about freedom and imagination. She cannot have this at school, because she is being asked to focus and she finds this hard. She can have it at home though - so let her do unfocussed fun things at home and have her imagination run free. Childhood is a precious time; we can never get it back - so she needs to have as much freedom as possible to be a child.

At school they are asking her to be something she is not; so home is where she can be herself. She is not ready to be so focussed - it is an artificial construct which is being imposed on her from outside, from school. But home is where she can be free of this.

Family life - especially if there is a baby there too - is by its nature unfocussed - people just interacting as families do. Let the school teach her to focus, as that is where it is regarded as being needed; let her have her freedom at home. I know only too well how hard it is to settle to any task with little ones around - one wants to paint a picture, another wants plonk their hands in it and create a jolly mess - that is what family life is about, especially with children at different ages and stages.

I think you really need to relax about all this. Time will tell if there is some label that needs sticking on your DD; in the meantime let her enjoy being a child.

Imagination is a child's skill - and they lose it eventually. So do not suppress this, but treasure it. Do not ask her to take on adult traits before her time.

@CutiePatooties

agree with others worth getting her assessed.

it also sounds to me like gendered expectations from the teacher.

my DD is in year 5 now. There are still several boys in her class that behave like this frequently through the day. Some with ADHD or ASD diagnosis, some not.

they are stepping up efforts / asks to get them to settle down now as, diagnosis or not, at some point you do have to learn it’s rude to interrupt or distract others and not do it.

and if you can’t learn that, it suggests adult life is going to be tougher for you.

i think as a society we are much less accepting of these kind of traits in girls. It’s not unusual in 5 year olds.

what’s she like at home? Can she sit and concentrate on something for a while if it interests her?

might be worth reading around for ideas to support ADHD kids develop those skill while you seek an assessment (lots of resources online).

I work with children from 4 to 23 and her behaviour sounds well within the realms of normal for a 4 year old

OP’s DD is 6…

@Mischance thank you and I totally get that. Don’t get me wrong, I haven’t created some rigid school-like timetable for her or anything… she woke up and jumped into our bed, asking if we can write stories together and I just thought that this would be a perfect opportunity to see if I could help her focus/gauge her focus-levels (as it’s not something I’ve considered when we’ve done anything at home). It would’ve been nice if hubby could’ve let us just get on with that and believe me she did use her imagination- I was just interested to see how her focus would be during this activity. I’m my opinion, he didn’t have to plonk bubba on the table (he’s just used to me doing everything with both of them I suppose!)

I totally appreciate what you’re saying and we of course do let her roam free, use her imagination and just play and be a child. I just found the advice about having some focus-based tasks and play to be a brilliant idea, as it’s exactly how we can help her with this at home and that’s exactly what I was asking for. It’s also enabled me to reflect upon how she is at home with anything that requires being seated or focussed. For example, we have been useless with dinner times and allowed her to use her tablet at the dinner table (in hindsight not helpful at all). Today she didn’t have this and she must’ve asked for it about ten times, kept standing up on her chair and even got up and stood on the table, so it’s clear we haven’t been helping her at all with this and it’s good for me to reflect on these things as it will help her in the long run. I’m certainly not going to give her a daily timetable of full-on focussed activities. I’m just going to add structure and focus where there hasn’t really been any at home.

@Catsstillrock she won’t sit and focus for a long time… like, she does whizz through her homework but I’m always sat next to her at the table and that only takes her about 5/10 mins. Then she’ll read to me, but again, that will be one book done in a few minutes or if we play/colour, she’ll do this for a bit then wander off and do something else. To have her sit for any longer than that she will have her tablet with her (like at the dinner table) but I asked for her to not have that today and she was just all over the place. Not sure if that’s because she’s so used to having her tablet, or if it’s because we’re sat there for about 15/20 mins and she can’t sit still that long. Only time will tell with that one, I suppose.

@fUNNYfACE36 she is 6 - would you still say this is in the realms of ‘normal behaviour’ for her age? Interested on your thoughts.

If she has always had her tablet at the table she will cut up rough when it is taken away suddenly for no reason that makes a jot of sense to her little mind! You think it will be good for her - but will she understand how? Do I understand how? None of this will make any sense to her - she just knows that you have taken away something she enjoys - sure, it might have been better never to have started it, but it must be very hard for her to understand why it has suddenly been withdrawn.

Structure is good; but focus is hard when you are 6! Many are simply not wired up for it yet. It will come - maybe let it come in her time rather than the time externally dictated. At some point she will acquire a hobby and you will be hard pushed to get her away from it to come and have her tea!

Do not let school worry you with ideas of your DD being in some way different/not normal. It just causes unnecessary stress - you have already had a fall-out with your OH over it! Just enjoy her. She will be gone and having babies of her own before you can blink!

Most children of 6 fly through their (totally unnecessary) homework to get it out of the way and get on with real life! She is entirely normal in this.

Parents who sit their small children down and make them slog away at homework are simply prolonging the school day for them, when they need to be out and about. How would we like to come home from work and be told to sit down and do more work?! Someone is going to say that this exactly what they are having to do - but are you pleased about that? Might children better be spared all that while they can?

Echo the sentiments of those who say she is probably bored.

Sounds like you have a smart child OP who needs more engaging practices.

Challenging if the teacher doesn’t have the capacity to address this.

Home and class are two very different environments so she’ll respond differently in each, not sure what you can do other than discuss an appropriate plan with the school and talk to your daughter as much as you can about how she is feeling at school.

Take it from there 😊