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Original poster

New primary school tables published today

55 replies

LunarSeasonsGreetings · 02/12/2004 12:23

Whether you agree with them or not - for info the latest primary school tables/results were published today - details are here .

Quite relieved to see that our local school, which changes in the way the admissions process is handled around here means we may be forced to go for, has increased from an overall score of 216 (very worrying) a couple of years ago to 266 (ok). I know it's not everything, but it's some reassurance at least.

OP posts:

Uwila · 02/12/2004 12:42

Ah, I wondered when this topic would come up. I actually like the league tables. They give give me some information in researching schools I would otherwise know nothing about.

I know that teachers don't like them. But, I don;t really know why. Perhaps spmeone on here could enlighten me?

LIZS · 02/12/2004 12:44

That's really interesting because if you look at my dilemma here . The junior school we eventually chose to nominate as first for ds outperformed the other popular one, and yet it is largely fed by the "weaker" of the infants. Are the KS1 stats also available for last year yet ?

Gobbledigoose · 02/12/2004 12:51

I think they are good in that they give you an idea of how well the school performs academically but I think you can get too caught up in them - making comparisons.

It depends what you want out of school too.

For example, ds's primary school does very well academically but the local catholic primary down the road does slightly better. However, I would still choose the school DS will go to because it has far better facilities all round. The catholic school has very little land and virtually no sport facilities and it's IT facilities are not a patch on ds's either.

I feel it's important that the school performs well academically but I'm interested in all the other things that go with it. So I'd far rather pick a school with slightly lower scores on these tables with all the extra things it has to offer.

tiredemma · 02/12/2004 12:58

can i ask a really stupid question- what am i looking for on them- what is a "good grade"?
school i have chosen for ds1 has a score of 75% for english at lev 4, 78% for maths at lev 4 and 95% for science with an average point score of 27.0 ( what does ita ll mean arggh!)

LIZS · 02/12/2004 13:22

I know, the jargon is ridiculous ! Basically my interest in comparing school was in % achieving at least level 4 in each subject and those who achieved level 5 (ie performing beyond that expected). As ds is likely to need some learning support I was also interested in % of SEN pupils, without statement, and whether that affected the academic results. Value Added and Year on Year comparison remain mysteries to me, although I assume you are looking for an upward trend, and I agree that you need to take the whole school into account , not just their results.

tiredemma · 02/12/2004 13:30

we visited the school afew weeks ago and tbh, its amazing and i dont think anything could change my mind- unless obviously the school was really struggling.
just wondered how to read the thing!!!

Blitzen · 02/12/2004 13:31

Value added is most significant, but it depends on the ability of the children at baseline assessment in Reception. I think value added relative to total score is the key - a low total score with high value added indicates better teaching than the other way round.

Blitzen · 02/12/2004 13:35

Oh, sorry, was talking about KS1 performance; at KS2, value added is based on performance at KS1. Same applies though.

Then again, 4 years is a long time in a school. When the children now doing KS2 SATs were doing KS1 SATs there could have been a whole different set of teachers - one of the (many many) reasons why IMHO league tables should not be published.

coppertop · 02/12/2004 13:37

Ds1's school hasn't got a fantastic mark (less than 200) but IMO the school has been so good with ds1 that I would recommend it to anyone. He is very happy there and has settled in so well that everyone who worked with him in his pre-school years find it amazing. Usually the guidelines are that a child with SN should be able to "cope" at school. Ds1 is positively thriving there. It's a shame that these league tables don't reflect this.

SilentBite · 02/12/2004 13:58

ERrr, i have just looked at these - have no idea what it all means either! How do you know what is considered good? ie what is the top marks you can get? 289 and 101.5 seem to be the figures

ChristmasBOOZA · 02/12/2004 13:59

In our area we have middle schools which means that the children transfer from the village primaries to a much larger school at age 10. Then the next year have the KS2 assessments. Surely this puts them at a disadvantage? I know it doesn't really matter because its only KS2 but I noticed that the results from the village primaries over the border were generally higher than for the two local middle schools.

Gobbledigoose · 02/12/2004 14:15

I look at these tables but actually I think they are quite dangerous - just a set of numbers in no real context and I think whatever those figures are, you look at the school in it's entirety and visit it and see if it suits you.

A hugely impressive score does not mean you child will be a genius and a lower one does mean they will fail miserably. There are SO many other factors to consider in educating/developing children.

Carla · 02/12/2004 14:24

Could anyone tell me what a statement is?

coppertop · 02/12/2004 14:32

A statement is a legal document which sets out exactly what help a child should be given in school and for how many hours each week. They are quite difficult to get as it means that the LEA has to provide extra funding for that particular pupil.

popsycal · 02/12/2004 14:35

Another thread I will pass on for today

SilentBite · 02/12/2004 14:37

YES BUT WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN???/

SantaQuated · 02/12/2004 14:38

means very little IMO, but i'm leaving this one too

KatieMaChristmas · 02/12/2004 14:41

My DD's school is so small that the numbers are mostly missing....and how relevant is it to compare a school with 66 pupils with a large primary with several hundred?

SilentBite · 02/12/2004 14:41

oh ok I won't bother to look at it then!

Uwila · 02/12/2004 14:51

I think they are valuable because you can take note of some trends. For example, I know it's a problem in the states that teachers will pass kids onto the next grade who aren't ready for the next grade just so it doesn't reflect badly on their teaching. If you have one test that the whole country is taking, and students at school x consistently do poorly in math, I think it's a flag to look at the math department of school x. It may be that some kids just aren;t very good at math, but not all of them.

However, as other have said, it's only a small part of the picture. There are other important aspects to the school that don't necessarily come through on these tests, like do the children have fun at school? Sports? Extracurricular? and so on...

wordsmith · 02/12/2004 15:26

Uwila, teachers don't like them because it focuses parents' attention on something which is only part of school life, esp. at that age, and still doesn't provide a useful indicator of how well your school is going to serve your child. For example, in my borough (Dudley) the top 3 primaries are all in the most affluent part of the borough! How amazing!! What a surprise!! (BTW I'm not a teacher, so if I have defamed their opinions, please forgive me. I'm only going by what teachers have told me.)

Uwila · 02/12/2004 15:42

Oh right. Well, I can see that people probably get too wrapped up in them and give them too much weight. But, I still think they have value. You just have to remember to look at other things too.

Yes, the number 1 LEA is again Richmond. I suppose this is probably because wealthy families can support educational activities outside of school as well (like math tutors, etc.). DOn't really know, but I expect there are some confounding variables there.

Gobbledigoose · 02/12/2004 15:50

How did you find out Richmond was the number 1 LEA Uwila - is there a table of them all? Didn't see that.

Are there tables to show the schools in each borough too?

wordsmith · 02/12/2004 15:52

Look at this for all results borough by borough

SilentBite · 02/12/2004 15:56

Oh I'm pleased about that, I'm in Richmond!

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