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How to deal with bizarre situation with teacher, affecting daughter’s grades?

192 replies

gw186 · 04/05/2022 11:46

Summary:
Teacher of my daughter gave her a C on her final exam (all multiple choice, done on Canvas). My daughter asked only to see her Canvas report, the teacher refused, saying the exam questions and answers are confidential. Sch admin says they “checked”, but they can’t show us the report. What to do now?

Background: my daughter loves science and takes it seriously, and we were surprised when she told us she got a C (after studying for weeks) on her final exam. As the exam was all multiple choice and administered/ graded automatically by Canvas, it should have been straightforward to see the Canvas report.

But when my daughter approached her teacher about her score, the teacher refused to show her the Canvas report, saying that the exam questions and answers are confidential.

My daughter then asked if she could see her Canvas numerical score (not even the whole paper). The teacher also refused.

So after some back and forth, we approached the school admin.

The school admin said they “checked” with the teacher and everything is correct, but they also can’t show us the Canvas report, or even the Canvas numerical score.

What do you reckon is our best course of action right now? Not to put too dark of a picture on this, but my daughter tells me she thinks several of her and her classmates had their scores pushed down, and maybe the school is trying to cover things up, because if they change the score back for her, they probably have to do the same for others as well when the word gets out, and then it’s going to be a messy PR situation.

OP posts:
Usernamenotavailabletryanother · 04/05/2022 22:10

I can’t believe I ready the whole thread.

I'm going for:

Age 6

St Helena

Do I win £5?

SoggyPaper · 04/05/2022 22:13

The problem is that the daughter and the OP think the teacher is lying about the mark she got (and other marks too) out of some kind of prejudice. And that’s why the marks aren’t available to students on the canvas system.

The OP has contacted the school who have confirmed the mark with the teacher. But the OP has a feeling in her water and wants the ‘true canvas report’. But, I suspect, even if given it would believe it had been doctored as part of the teacher’s conspiracy against this particular (unspecified) demographic.

SoggyPaper · 04/05/2022 22:18

Usernamenotavailabletryanother · 04/05/2022 22:10

I can’t believe I ready the whole thread.

I'm going for:

Age 6

St Helena

Do I win £5?

It’s like cluedo. 15 year old in Pennsylvania, USA with gaps in understandings of laws of motion and covalent bonding.

contrelamontre · 04/05/2022 22:21

Jeez - just let the kid know her numerical score and what the numerical score boundaries were for a C grade. Then the kid knows that it was just her score on that test that got her a C grade or whether there were any other factors she's not being made aware of. Just give her the score or the official channels to go through to get the score.

SoggyPaper · 04/05/2022 22:24

contrelamontre · 04/05/2022 22:21

Jeez - just let the kid know her numerical score and what the numerical score boundaries were for a C grade. Then the kid knows that it was just her score on that test that got her a C grade or whether there were any other factors she's not being made aware of. Just give her the score or the official channels to go through to get the score.

The teacher did.

The OP said (buried among repeating the same vague information):

After the exam, the teacher “muted” the automatic score report for Canvas, which would have been available to indicate the computer graded # correct.
Then, they verbally told the students what they got, the numerical grade for the exam.

My daughter was told she got a numerical grade which translated to a C.

Onwards22 · 04/05/2022 22:32

Jeez - just let the kid know her numerical score and what the numerical score boundaries were for a C grade.

She was told her numerical score and was told this translates to a C.

Then, they verbally told the students what they got, the numerical grade for the exam.

My daughter was told she got a numerical grade which translated to a C.

The issue is that OP doesn’t believe the teacher or the admin that checked.

She believes her DD got a higher score and that’s she’s lying about her grade - which isn’t possible as it’s externally graded and these are checked.
If she’s in another country things may be different.

Spottybotty20 · 04/05/2022 22:39

So if it’s a c grade test she could have had 100% on it and it’s still a c grade. As a teacher I would have avoided telling parents that 100% would still be a c as it would have been my error not giving them a tougher test.

poetryandwine · 04/05/2022 22:41

@Onwards22 obviously I share some of your doubts. That is why I reported the post. The first time I have done so.

@WonderingWanda In America teachers generally have a tremendous amount of autonomy. My impression is that this was a bank of questions provided by Canvas, though I could be wrong. It isn’t statistically valid to moderate a small set of marks from multiple choice exams, particularly if the pupils may have been answering different questions from the question bank. So I still don’t see a reason to suppress raw marks. (At my uni we let students see their exams and explain marks have been scaled. I agree it may be inappropriate to give sight of this exam)

Canvas should do some training but it isn’t very impressive so I doubt there is very much. Because America has no high stakes exams like GCSEs or ALs there are no similar exam boards or training. (The SATs/ACTs and optional Advanced Placement exams are for uni applications only and quite low key by comparison)

I completely agree with you that it is important to follow the appeals protocol. It doesn’t sound like there was any marking to check, only some possible moderation that, aside from anything else, may or may not be statistically valid.

saveforthat · 05/05/2022 08:30

What's the demographic? Do you think the teacher is racist, sexist or what? I realise teachers are not perfect but I'm struggling to see why they would mark down? Surely would just reflect badly on them/the school

jgw1 · 05/05/2022 17:37

saveforthat · 05/05/2022 08:30

What's the demographic? Do you think the teacher is racist, sexist or what? I realise teachers are not perfect but I'm struggling to see why they would mark down? Surely would just reflect badly on them/the school

Its an ism thats for sure.

gw186 · 06/05/2022 07:13

Sorry everyone, I’m back now, it was a very busy week (doing 5-6 hours sleep)

Thank you all for your input. It was helpful to have a range of perspectives

I thought more about it & it ultimately came down to this: do I believe my daughter or the teacher?

It’s literally my daughter’s word (she thinks the grading wasn’t right) vs. that teacher’s, who verbally gave her the bad score, without showing us any documentation, even the auto-graded numerical score report

In this case, I’d like to give my daughter the benefit of the doubt.

Her reaction was more of surprise than anything, and given we’ve already been having this conversation many times in our family, it’s not like she’s embarrassed about it anymore. Like I’ve told her many times, even if she did get a C when we seek the records, I think she did the right thing in airing her concerns, when she really felt like something is amiss, instead of being passive and simply going along with someone in a position of authority/ taking “their word” for it just because.

The teacher, when asked, was unable/ did not want to show us the Canvas auto-graded score, which was strange to me.

The decision pathway for us is,

Option 1 - If we seek the records, really get to the bottom of things, and

(a) My daughter’s feelings were right, the bad score was inaccurate/ unjustified, then it would be corrected, and we find out what was the true score, have it be reflected on her records. My daughter would share with the few of her peers who were affected about what happened & they would get their scores changed back too. The teacher would also have pressure to act more fairly in the future given this time they had to show accuracy of reporting. Overall effect: ++
(b) My daughter’s true scores per the verified records match the verbally reported ones. We can rest easy knowing our fears were unfounded. Given that everyone acted honorably in this scenario, there’s nothing to be ashamed of anyway. Overall effect: +

Option 2 - If we ignore/ suppress our suspicions, just because it’s a potentially awkward situation and takes more work, then

(a) If our daughter’s scores were indeed pushed down, and so did the few others’, and no one did anything about it, because it was their word against the teacher’s, it’d be perpetuating the problem for no reason. Overall effect: –

(b) Even if our daughter’s scores were reported accurately anyway, because we haven’t verified, there would still be suspicion in my daughter’s mind, given that she would still doubt the teacher verbally reported to her the true score. It would probably affect her interactions/ learning in the environment, eg. if you suspect someone doesn’t like you or treated you bad, you’d probably not put in 100% either, even subconsciously. Overall effect: –

Thus on balance, we think it’s probably better we persist in getting to the bottom of this. Obviously this is the first time that (a) my daughter felt the grade was off to such an extent (having done so many years of school by now, she like many of her peers all seem well-versed in guesstimating the ‘range’ they should have scored in), and (b) the teacher verbally reported the score which my daughter questioned, without showing the graded exam, or even the score printout when we asked for it.

Thank you all for your input, there were some helpful points shared here.

We’ll try to escalate things now. I’m not sure how long the process would take, but I’ll try to update you all (might not post as frequently). At least, if someone here has a kid who faces a similar situation in the future, you’ll have more info at your fingertips on what to do.

If you think of other stuff, please feel free to post, I’ll check back every so often.

OP posts:
Clymene · 06/05/2022 07:27

You can be sure we'll all be on tenterhooks until your next update!

TeenPlusCat · 06/05/2022 07:33

At least, if someone here has a kid who faces a similar situation in the future, you’ll have more info at your fingertips on what to do.

Honestly, we won't.
Knowing what to do in this kind of situation is really dependent on the age of the child, the importance of the grade, the school system & governance, and the country's legal system. You haven't told us any of those.

jgw1 · 06/05/2022 07:41

Thus on balance, we think it’s probably better we persist in getting to the bottom of this. Obviously this is the first time that (a) my daughter felt the grade was off to such an extent (having done so many years of school by now, she like many of her peers all seem well-versed in guesstimating the ‘range’ they should have scored in), and (b) the teacher verbally reported the score which my daughter questioned, without showing the graded exam, or even the score printout when we asked for it.

Students are very bad at judging how well they have done on a particular test or exam. If one asks them to estimate the % that they scored most are not within 10%, and it is even worse if one asks them to guess the grade, because they have absolutely no idea if the paper was hard or easy was and hence no idea what the grade boundaries will be.

You seem to have discounted the possibility that your daughter has not been doing all the work she should have been and is desperately looking for some way of placating her tiresome helicopter mother, who for some unfathomable reason does not seem to want to let her daughter live her own life.

gw186 · 06/05/2022 07:48

TeenPlusCat · 06/05/2022 07:33

At least, if someone here has a kid who faces a similar situation in the future, you’ll have more info at your fingertips on what to do.

Honestly, we won't.
Knowing what to do in this kind of situation is really dependent on the age of the child, the importance of the grade, the school system & governance, and the country's legal system. You haven't told us any of those.

It'd actually be so easy to make something up but I didn't want to lie, because I don't get people who lie on internet forums

I voluntarily put up the information which is true

There's other information which I prefer to not disclose, because there are some details which would be identifying, and given that we may indeed take action on this, it's better we stick with the facts that we're willing to disclose right now when leaving a written record anywhere, ie. not expose ourselves to liability that we don't want

Thank you for your understanding

OP posts:
jgw1 · 06/05/2022 08:06

Thank you for your understanding

I think it is safe to say that any teacher like this has met a parent like you and fully understands.

TeenPlusCat · 06/05/2022 08:39

Knowing if you are 'UK or USA or Elsewhere' is really NOT identifying!

sashh · 06/05/2022 08:47

OP

No one can help you without more information.

I've not heard of this system but I've used other VLEs. The great thing about them is that you can do drag and drop or multiple choice and the system marks it for you.

What you need to know is the marking scheme / grade boundaries / was there any negative marking?

You also need to know what is being marked, it might just be the content of the syllabus but it could be other things.

I'm doing an online degree in maths, in my last assignment there were a few anomalies eg

One question asked me to take a practice test and then paste the report into my assignment.

The score on the test didn't matter, I could have got 100% or 0% because the mark was for the pasting of the report.

I also had some marks deducted because I hadn't lined up the '= ' sign when I put a function on a new line.

When I was in school, centuries ago, my school report gave my class position as well as a grade. This was fairly meaningless, you could be 1st in all subjects, but if you were in a lower ability group your 1st place didn't mean anything.

But a teacher could give you a grade depending on the class, so whoever gets the highest score gets an A.

Negative marking can change a grade, so if you get a question wrong or do not answer you may lose marks.

As for print outs, in the UK I can't give you a printout with other children's names on it. If your child is 18 I can't even give you the student's grade because of data protection.

alapis · 06/05/2022 08:51

You write so much and say so little OP.

Wisteriaroundthedoor · 06/05/2022 08:53

Oh op. Sometimes when our kids don’t do well It’s better to work with them to improve performance rather than feed this folly, it won’t help her next time. In addition, take the pressure off her so she doesn’t have to come up with stuff like this to justify her performance.

what a mess you’ve all got youtselves into

AtillatheHun · 06/05/2022 08:59

The child is without a doubt 7 years old and the test was of a nature that a lot of kids got close to / perfect scores so even 80% comes out as a C on grade banding. OP doesn’t like the notion that other kids did better.

SoggyPaper · 06/05/2022 09:13

AtillatheHun · 06/05/2022 08:59

The child is without a doubt 7 years old and the test was of a nature that a lot of kids got close to / perfect scores so even 80% comes out as a C on grade banding. OP doesn’t like the notion that other kids did better.

Or it’s the USA where close to 100% is expected and a C is a fairly horrible mark.

could still be 7 years old though.

gw186 · 06/05/2022 10:22

She's not 7 years old.

If she were, we'd actually be even more concerned/ even more proactive on this because young kids are impressionable and if they feel they were given lower grades than they really achieved because of their demographic, then I'd want even more proof on what the true records show, either way.

I suppose parenting styles differ as do individuals differ, maybe some would choose to be more laissez faire themselves but we are going to take our daughter's word on this.

OP posts:
DaisyQuakeJohnson · 06/05/2022 10:48

Honestly I'm surprised this is still here. 🙄 As a PP said, so many words to say so little.

poetryandwine · 06/05/2022 10:54

OP,

It is in your DD’s best interests that you

a. Proceed constructively - replies have shown that there could be legitimate reasons for declining to comply with requests so far, as you may have worded them.

b. Remember that any data you access must be anonymised. You will never know the story behind the group of boys surprised by their high marks.

Personally I think that if you can show reasonable grounds for suspicion - and as sympathetic as I am to the possibility of bias, I don’t think you have done that in this thread - it is reasonable to request an anonymised list of raw marks with changes tracked. That way you could see the history of marks entries for each pupil.

I don’t know how tech savvy you are, so I will note that you should not be put off by any claims that the entries are in eg alphabetical order, hence not really anonymous. They can easily be re-ordered.

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