Is private education worth it?

[motherofggs]

I have two children they are both in private school, one in primary another one is in secondary (age 9 and 12) We used to have really good income before so we never considered and searched about the state schools. We will shut down the business and find a job with my husband we both have master degrees from UK but still I am not sure if we can cover the all school fees with our salaries. Our school fees currently 34k for both of them per year. It’s increasing each year and lunch, uniform and piano lessons are not including in this fee.
My kids are doing great in school. They are both above average with out tutoring. Specially little one so talented she will sit IGCSE exams next year. Her teacher says she is gifted and role model of the class. Both my children also good in sport and art and they speak 3 languages. My older one got scholarship (25 percent off from school fees). I do believe little one will have more as she is more academic and she can get 50 percent when she will sit her 11plus assessment in year 6.
Unfortunately I am still in stress as I know lots of parents which has degrees like us and both works full time and they can not afford independent school fees for 2 children. Meanwhile by saving I mean we have one holiday house in our country which cost about 150k and one additional (off plan) property which will be ready in 2023 (we paid 90k) for that property in 2009. And we have a mortgage around £2000 with service charge and 2 cars. And if sell the house we living in currently we can have around 300k because we paid high amount of deposit when we bought the property. We still can pay next years schools fees from the savings but if our income do not gets better we need to sell one of our properties later.
I would like to know what would you do if you were in that situation. Many thanks

Some friends' children go to a really good state school which need 40 minutes bus journey, but the school is really good, they are quite happy.

Some friends' children go to a really good state school which need 40 minutes bus journey, but the school is really good, they are quite happy
That’s what I did years ago, I passed my 11 plus so didn’t go to the local school. It worked out well as I ended up with two lots of friends.

@smileface3 I heard that kind of things from my friends too.. and thats what I am scared of:(

@smileface3“We made a bad choice, as our local state school sounds good, has good GCSE result, and DC's friends are all going to this local state school. So DC has gone to this school. In the end, I think school teachers are doing a wonderful job, teaching are good, but there are a big potion of children don't care about learning, their behaviors are bad. DC is not happy at all, so we are moving him now”

I heard that kind of things from my friends too.. and thats what I am scared of:(

Meanwhile my girls are in one of GDST girls only school. ISI report is excelent in all areas.
And our local state secondary and primary options are Good by OFSTED.
How do you understand if it is excelent state school. Do we need to check the Ofsted report only?

As others have said - are you time poor but cash rich - private school; a bit more time of your hands but cash poor - good state. Whilst many of the parents in both sectors are the same ones, i think how much time you have to spend with your kids makes a difference. I would like to be an involved parent and I am on the weekends but both of us work full time so realistically our kids will be in after school clubs rather than being ferried around. So whilst we will probably stick with state - private would be much better for us

I’d sell the second off plan place for some income relief. As for private schools, I would say yes/no/maybe they are better. Look at the curriculum carefully. My old private school costs $41,000 for day tuition, but offers fewer advanced classes and AP courses than the local state school.

What @MrPickles73 said, plus consideration of the exact school and your dc’s needs.

I often say on here some kids will do well anywhere and others need an extra shove to achieve their potential.
I achieved top grades in a mediocre comprehensive but was off my own back (I drove myself as was curiously motivated without external pushing) but those in my school who were average-above average but unmotivated did not achieve the grades I think they would have got in most independent schools. I did not get the broadness or depth of education my dh did in his independent school or many of my counterparts at medical school did at their independent or grammar schools.

I just feel sad that the state system is stretched, like the nhs/other public services, so that they are desperately trying to meet ridiculous or pointless targets with minimal often undertrained or stretched stressed staff. My cousin is a primary school teacher with a degree in sports science and is expected to teach music up to yr6 (she couldn’t read music or play an instrument), French (only learnt Spanish to gcse level at school, never French) and be in charge of school plays. This is a 2 form entry primary in a town. How can she provide what my (I admit very lucky) dc get with a music dept in their prep comprised of 3 music teachers with academic music degrees who are professional level musicians outside of their teaching roles and two native French speakers teaching French? The occasional amazingly gifted teacher can do everything but most people are mere mortals! My poor cousin is desperately trying to get some kids to reach some target level or other in maths/English, whilst those who are meeting/exceeding the expectations are a lower priority. That seems to be a system problem.

Ultimately it is a personal choice but one you are very lucky to even be able to consider for your family.

Whether it’s ‘worth it’ depends on two questions;

• what alternatives you have available to you in terms of free state schooling
• what the ‘cost’ in terms of sacrifices the school fees mean for your family.

It is why it is ‘worth it’ for some families and not for others, who either have exactly the same school options but different incomes, or different school options but the same incomes.

The key is to start by knowing exactly what is available in your area and to form a clear view of the pros and cons of each. Many people never manage to work these thinngs out. Often they know little about the state school and actually even less about the independent school in terms of academic attainment at younger ages, because SATS are not taken.

You need to understand what the intakes into each are, plus what kind of schools they go onto later. In lots of ways it helps to know what you want later and to work backwards.

When people ask the question about ‘worth it’ their finances are often marginal. They feel they could afford it with some sacrifices but it won’t be easy.

To work out the true cost, you have to know what the costs are each year and facto in all the. Extras and the increases that occur each year and due to shifting into a new phase of education which tends to cost more. It’s surprising how many people don’t do this calculation. You also need to know what you can live on and the standard of living you’re not prepared to drop below….things like holidays, cars, pension provision etc. You can start to see then if it’s affordable.

If it might be affordable you can start to look at if it’s worth it. What will you give up to pay fees, but crucially, how much better will it be compared to the free state option? This is where there can be huge differences. If you have a fab state Comp or state Grammar that your kid will get into, a mediocre or even very decent independent is very very costly if it means you make sacrifices for fairly mini or or superficial gains. However, if your state alternative is terriblle, the gains even from a moderate fee paying school can be significant…although whether significant enough is questionable.

If it’s a marginal decision, usually there has to be a significant gain to make it really worthwhile. Purely having shinier facilities isn’t usually enough to put up with a significantly poorer standard of living g now and into the free for the whole family, if a good state school is available. It’s why so many don’t opt for independent but go for good state schools or move house to be closer to one. Fees are now so high, that the ‘OST’ is very high and for families with 2+ kids, the sacrifice is too much for even most with very good salaries.

The first thing though is to become really very well informed about local provision. Think not just about the phase you’re looking at, but what happens next.

All depends on the quality of the state schools in the area.

We put our children in private for juniors all the way through. In the long run we didn't feel it was worth it. Felt like the mafia with influential parents at the school getting special treatment for their children. Far too many reward systems, discpline was inconsistent and not on a level playing field.
There was far too much attention given to extra curricular activities that looked good for their marketing eg. forest schools and plays.
Academically it was very weak, core subjects were not given high priority in comparison to a good state school.

@Invasionofthegutsnatchers

Depends on the schools. Many private schools employ unqualified teachers who are largely unmonitored and their approach to learning can be very much stuck in the dark ages.

Congrats! Post of the year .

Depends what you see as "worth it" - for me it's not all about the grades and the uni offers.

@Fuuyf5677

As others have said - are you time poor but cash rich - private school; a bit more time of your hands but cash poor - good state. Whilst many of the parents in both sectors are the same ones, i think how much time you have to spend with your kids makes a difference. I would like to be an involved parent and I am on the weekends but both of us work full time so realistically our kids will be in after school clubs rather than being ferried around. So whilst we will probably stick with state - private would be much better for us

I agree with this for parents for whom private school is on the margins of affordability.

We researched state primary schools in London and decided it is horrifically difficult to get into a good state school in our area. We looked into moving to Kent or Essex borders which has good state and grammar schools but eventually decided we preferred to live in London and thereby have to go down the private school route.

That being the case, we had to cut our coat according to our cloth. In other words, I could not have a leisurely pt job. I had to go for it in terms of my career. So it is 2 ft working parents using all the wrap around care and facilities on tap and on site.

It is a more high stakes lifestyle and climbing the twin financial rock faces of the mortgage and ever increasing school fees is not for the faint hearted. But we are coming out on the other side now and our children have benefitted from having more choices, I think, both educationally and financially.

It depends on what you see as worth it.

Can your children get the same exam grades and university destinations in the state system? Absolutely yes.

Will your children fit in with the children in their local state school when they are now so far ahead academically (and have spent years at prep school)? No.

As your children won’t fit in, is there a higher risk of bullying at state school? Yes. Much higher.

Will their stress levels be higher in state school? Yes. The teachers are overworked, underfunded, stressed by Ofsted etc and there’s a much higher percentage of difficult or SEN children which drains the teacher’s attention.

For me, in the situation you describe, I would sell all of the property you don’t live in before I’d consider removing the children from a school where they fit in, are happy, and are progressing well.

Many good posts on here.. literally depends on the cost and what sacrifices you have to make to meet them, the quality of your local state schools and the importance of extra curricular activities.
So it's a different decision for all families.
We've gone private as it's affordable for us, we can still afford some holidays, local state schools are dire and extra curricular is important to our kids.
Friends of ours in London are sticking with state.. still have a mortgage to pay off, want holidays, state schools are outstanding and spend 12k per year on extra curricular activities and mother works part time to ferry them there. They live in an expensive neighborhood with professional parents and find the outstanding primary excessively competitive - academically, sports, everything and their children are unhappy. Our kids outside SE at private have alot less pressure and I'm happy with that.

Depends on what the local state option is like really. Ours go to a top performing state girls school. Teaching excellent (with some exceptions) they both have really nice like minded friends Sport ok but we supplement that with outside clubs. We have tutors for their weaker subjects. We provide the moral guidance.

We both were state educated have professional jobs and Dh went to Oxbridge. That said wouldn’t rule it out if a child unhappy struggling or the state option was awful.

We could just about afford private, but it would put stress on our finances. At the back of my mind my extended family (cousins) are a mix of private and state. The privately educated adults are not higher earners than the state ones. It might sound silly but if I struggled and went without for private education, I'd hope it means my children have successful careers/ businesses. We decided against it.

I suspect it is different once you have started private schooling, and there's the desire to keep going. If you are fully committed with private, then sell your property. If you are not move the younger child to local primary, and start running her around to extra curricular activities after school. Move one at a time, rather than both. It might help you work out what you want to do with your secondary age child.

I think it’ll come down to the options you have. I mean private in our area is a real mix. I have a number of friends that could afford private (easier than us) and don’t. They all come out with things like ‘I want my kid’s to mix with normal children’ that it goes against their political beliefs etc etc that’s all bullshit cos they live in one million pound plus houses, drive amazing cars and spend a lot of money on holidays (skiing, US etc), have Nannies etc.

Therefore I think they’re not willing to cut back (and why should they?)!

For us we’ve sacrificed a bigger house, better cars and generally do UK holidays. I believe having through the pandemic had 2 DC at a State school - a very good state school in an affluent area with very involved parents that the school is no where near the standard of the prep school . It’s just another level. Will the kids achieve higher grades at private? Possibly but it’s the extra stuff - just the work ethic, ethos, culture of the prep school. It’s already made my older DC feel louder were there words. They stated they can me more themselves and have a louder voice. That’s the ‘stuff’ I’m paying for.

Interesting thread. We’re one of those families who chose state even though we can easily afford private. And it really is nothing to do with being unwilling to cut back on other expenses but instead all about the availability of excellent state schools close to us. There is also an element of not wanting our DC to only mix with other well-off families.

But even if our local state schools weren’t as good as they are, going private would still be something I’d have to think very carefully about. My DC will have to work after university (we don’t have sufficient assets to buy them each a house in this part of London and provide them with an indefinite income - there are plenty of families I know around here who are in that lucky position!). And I want my DC to feel free from parental expectation to do whatever they want in life and not set a precedent that they feel they need to get a high paying city job like their parents either to justify their expensive education or to attempt to replicate their childhood for their own families. It’s bad enough that they’ve grown up in an expensive part of London and buying their own home here, if that’s what they wanted, will be difficult.

Quite a few friends have really struggled with the fact that they themselves went to private school and feel obliged to now send their own DC private even though private school fees have increased dramatically in the last 30 years. E.g. one friend whose father was a doctor easily sent all 3 of his children to private school, big detached house, holiday home in Cornwall, mum didn’t work etc. She does pretty much exactly the same job as her father did but can’t come close to replicating his lifestyle - her kids go to their local state school, are perfectly happy there, but she feels she’s letting them down.

Obviously if your local state schools are terrible and you have the money to go private then perhaps not a difficult choice - but just something else to think about.

Also like that for us the state school means local friends. My young teen dds hang out with their friends locally picnics bike rides etc. My friends same age kids at private school are always at home - they live a long way from school mates as their private school has a wider catchment and lots of the other private school parents are frankly neurotic (eg not allowing 14 year olds to get buses alone). Their kids aren’t as happy. I would be 🙄 if I was paying for that.

I went to both, taught in both and have tried my kids in both.
There will always be exceptions but on the whole private is worth it. State schools are a mess at the moment.

My friends same age kids at private school are always at home - they live a long way from school mates as their private school has a wider catchment and lots of the other private school parents are frankly neurotic (eg not allowing 14 year olds to get buses alone)

Always at home? Frankly neurotic parents? That is a massive generalisation and you betray your prejudices against private schools and their parents. I am sure that is how you see it but that is by no means universal.

Forgot to quote this corker ... Their kids aren’t as happy.

Shucks what mugs, eh, private school parents paying to make their kids unhappy.

I think there are lots of exceptions. My DC's state schools have been anything but a mess and still aren't. We also could have comfortably afforded private and opted for state. We've invested the amount we would have spent on fees since they started and they should have almost enough to buy their first properties outright if/when they move back to London after university.

Invasionofthegutsnatchers
Depends on the schools. Many private schools employ unqualified teachers who are largely unmonitored and their approach to learning can be very much stuck in the dark ages

Can you enlarge on this, invasion?