Is private education worth it?

[motherofggs]

I have two children they are both in private school, one in primary another one is in secondary (age 9 and 12) We used to have really good income before so we never considered and searched about the state schools. We will shut down the business and find a job with my husband we both have master degrees from UK but still I am not sure if we can cover the all school fees with our salaries. Our school fees currently 34k for both of them per year. It’s increasing each year and lunch, uniform and piano lessons are not including in this fee.
My kids are doing great in school. They are both above average with out tutoring. Specially little one so talented she will sit IGCSE exams next year. Her teacher says she is gifted and role model of the class. Both my children also good in sport and art and they speak 3 languages. My older one got scholarship (25 percent off from school fees). I do believe little one will have more as she is more academic and she can get 50 percent when she will sit her 11plus assessment in year 6.
Unfortunately I am still in stress as I know lots of parents which has degrees like us and both works full time and they can not afford independent school fees for 2 children. Meanwhile by saving I mean we have one holiday house in our country which cost about 150k and one additional (off plan) property which will be ready in 2023 (we paid 90k) for that property in 2009. And we have a mortgage around £2000 with service charge and 2 cars. And if sell the house we living in currently we can have around 300k because we paid high amount of deposit when we bought the property. We still can pay next years schools fees from the savings but if our income do not gets better we need to sell one of our properties later.
I would like to know what would you do if you were in that situation. Many thanks

State schools are massively underfunded. We have super state schools on our doorstep but the reason they do well is due to the semi-private nature of what the parents do at home: lots of activities including horse riding drama etc and tutors galore! If the schools were left to it then they’re simply underfunded I know this as I’m a councillor/governor at a local state school:

We have for many other reasons decided to send ours privately - its very important to us for our children to love their time at school. And I went to a top state school but the teachers were horrible bullies. I have a better idea of what’s going on at the private school. Bizarrely less nepotism that the local primary school. A much more rounded education and tonnes of opportunities for the kids to get involved in so much outside the classroom.

Am instance of the role of home/parental influence -

At outstanding state school: year 1 DS is encouraged to write sentences.

At home: DS is actively helped, daily to write stories, letters and reports. His stories have beginnings, middles and ends. There are characters and plot twists. He uses complex adverbs and adjectives. He combines different sentence types. He proof reads and edits his work. This is a direct result of parental input daily.

Another example -

At outstanding state infant: DS does PE, and singing with his class.

At home: DS gets weekly piano lessons at a splendid studio, he ice-skates, plays on the under 8s cricket team at the home of our county cricket club, and swims twice a week.

Final example :

At outstanding state primary: DS is encouraged to read his work out loud when possible.

At home/parental input: DS does theatre and LAMDA at a performance arts academy focusing on public speaking; he’s actively involved in Musuem and city trips with his mum who shares her profession/passion in research and public speaking with him.

This picture could be very different with the exact same school - with different parents/home.

So whether private is worth it and by how much and to what degree it’s worth it depends on a whole host of factors.

To an extent, it depends how much you are able to facilitate the extras that a private school can provide. In my group of friends/acquaintances, there's a real mix of those whose kids are in state, and those whose kids are in private (secondary level). The local state schools are academically good, but in general their extra curricular offering can't rival the private schools. The parents who've gone for state schools spend a lot of time sorting out extra curricular activities (driving to sports clubs, weekend matches, music lessons etc). Much cheaper, but lots of time commitment. The private school parents pay much more, but have the advantage of a one-stop shop. Socially, they pretty much all live the same sort of life, and I imagine the kids will come out with the same sort of grades. The decision tends to come down to disposable income level and other life commitments.

We’ve used both sectors and although it’s hard to fully compare as one is doing A levels and other just starting secondary I’d say yes and no to answer - and mostly it depends on the child and school

Contrary to pp we found state has really suited more laid back but bright dc who is really happy with not doing full on clubs, sports and extras but is now doing four A levels with hopefully top grades

Younger dc is in selective so not really for dc who need pushing, but uses all the sports, music and drama etc

My DC went to a good local state school, they did really well in their A levels and went to good unis. Now they are happy in their careers. Their cousins went to private schools from the age of 2 and got very similar academic results to my DC.
We spent our money on a few holidays a year, days and meals out every weekend, never having to think about bills or the cost of food etc, etc. Our DC went to any club or activity they wanted to.
I think it depends on what you are willing to sacrifice.

@Kolani If that's the case why do some state schools get contextual offers for university? is it not based on state schools not having as much resources or access to teaching as their private school counterparts why the drive to equalize things for state school students

I think contextual offers refer more specifically to the opportunity (lack of) facing the student, rather than a blanket ‘state school’ context. The majority of Uni students, after all, come from state schools. See this list of the basis of contextual offers that some Unis make www.ukuniversitysearch.com/blog/post/what-are-contextual-offers

I.e it’s about the circumstances of the student rather than state schools per se. And since they largely focus on disadvantage, because that if a proven barrier to achieving academic potential, the majority of these students will be in the state sector.

So in terms of are private schools worth it in terms of educational attainment: it depends as much discussed on this thread.

Worth it in terms of privilege? Probably, as referenced by this post: DS is still at university but has secured two good (one last year -one upcoming - highly paid - internships for the summer holidays). Who knows if they would achieve the same within the state system - possibly

Though of course networking of the right kind works for state students lucky enough to have the right parents.

It depends on where you live and the state school options. Where I live there is an excellent state school for girls but no other good options for mixed or boys. Are you in a Grammar school county? Also speak to the school, the equity you have would not preclude you from financial assistance in many schools. My friend has an enormous bursary so fees are very limited.

Most bog standard independent schools are no better than a decent state school and many are worse

How biased and wrong! My dc have had experience of both and private (non public school) is streets ahead. It isn't just the education but the care and knowledge they have about each child. They are also highly responsive to parents. Not the case in state schools who are overwhelmed. The other factor is disruptive children just don't exist in the same numbers as in state schools. Rightly or wrongly highly disruptive children get managed that either they improve or leave. I know of 2 cases where both happened. The schools was so supportive and the turnaround of one child was lovely to see.

The further my kids go through school the more convinced I am that if you have a good state option bog standard private schools on the whole are not worth it. Eton Harrow etc May be different but seriously, the outcomes for bright kids from a decent state school are almost identical to those in private. I say this as someone who was completely privately educated and started off my children in the private system before feeling that there can’t possibly be an added value of near on £25k per child per year when there is a decent state option

For us it has been worth it but it completely depends on your child and what is it you’re wanting from the school.

Completely missing the point of the thread here but did you mean to say that you bought a property off plan in 2009 and it isn’t complete until next year?

@RussianSpy101 yes we purchased it for investment.

Why has it taken 14 years to build a house?

Sorry... 2019 :)

The biggest factor in attainment at school is parental involvement/engagement. You can outsource that at private school, but if you do it yourself you don't need to pay private school.

If you care about music and sport but don't want to arrange these things yourself then private school can be useful.

Social problems are different but equal in the two types of school. Bullying can be worse at private school. Drugs and drinking can be worse at private school.

I attended private school. I have family at private school. My kids are at state school, their school is genuinely better than the private school my relatives go to and my kids' results were excellent.

If I'm honest, whilst I know the spectrum of schools is broad, I think on the whole private schools are a racket. I would use the money differently.

Surely it depends on the schools.

We are fortunate to live in an area with great state schools - primary, Grammar and high schools. No need to go private.

Where we lived pre DC, the local schools were not great so we would have had to look at alternatives. There were a lot of great private schools there for a reason.

@orangesofa

To an extent, it depends how much you are able to facilitate the extras that a private school can provide. In my group of friends/acquaintances, there's a real mix of those whose kids are in state, and those whose kids are in private (secondary level). The local state schools are academically good, but in general their extra curricular offering can't rival the private schools. The parents who've gone for state schools spend a lot of time sorting out extra curricular activities (driving to sports clubs, weekend matches, music lessons etc). Much cheaper, but lots of time commitment. The private school parents pay much more, but have the advantage of a one-stop shop. Socially, they pretty much all live the same sort of life, and I imagine the kids will come out with the same sort of grades. The decision tends to come down to disposable income level and other life commitments.

Yes, I agree with this to some extent. Private schools may well be more convenient for the parents because of the "one stop shop" aspect. Personally, though, I was happy to deal with the hassle of facilitating extracurricular activities outside school, as I think there is a huge value in kids having friends outside of school instead of everything being centred in one place.

Of course, once the kids get to a certain level in activities, even the private kids tend to go outside school for the really specialist extracurricular stuff. DD has a lot of privately educated friends through some of her activities.

I went to a private school! There was so many issues with it!

I don’t think it is, no. Private secondary here is just shy of £20k a year. We would have two at secondary together for 3 years, so we would be paying £40k a year for 3 years. I think that is an insane amount of money for something that is very nice, but not without its issues.

My brother and I both went to private schools and I was supplemented with tutoring. It helped me loads (medical) but not my brother and he's not academic or driven at all so it depends on the child.

I think if you are prepared to an extent to accept that a good state school is unlikely to match many private schools in music and sport and can compare on ethos and results, which is what the majority of private parents are paying for regardless of whether they admit it or not, you’ll find little difference.

The ethos of our state school is kindness and charity and they deliver and live by that motto, the children have an ingrained desire to understand the importance of respect and charity. The ethos of the school is to do your best and those at every academic level are celebrated and supported. There’s great pride in doing well and the school teaching on the whole is excellent and the children have excellent relationships with the teachers.

The school doesn’t have an abundance of funds, it does need money spending on it, the sport and music is fairly rubbish but it’s a very happy, school where children reach their potential. Can’t see any reason to pay for education.

Depends if you like nicely packaged ready meals or cooking your own food from locally sourced organic ingredients!
Seriously though - if you have no time and lots of money why would you not? Like buying creme de la mer face cream. Can you have nice skin without it - hell yes. Is it nice to have if you have a large income - well why not, smells delicious.
Top universities are overflowing with state school kids so going to a state school and having supportive parents means all opportunities are out there. can your kids be as happy in state schools - of course they can! If they are sociable, resilient, bright and motivated they will fly at a state school. If they need -a bit more - keep them in private.

Here you go op…this was an article yesterday.

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/07/england-state-school-pupils-as-happy-with-life-as-private-school-peers-survey

I now work in a private school and I sent my children to a private school
I wouldn't send them again I'd I had my time over

Sen provision is generally better in state schools

Top set kids have low level disruption in a state school

The best teachers are in state schools not private (generally speaking )

I agree with the environment factor you have mentioned but its not all state school kids don't do home work. Perhaps some of the 4 kids are quite bright and will pull through...

What do you want out-of private school OP? The experience or your kids to bag a good job?

I would look at state schools... and consider a tutor along side.

Just a small point on staffing. I would never claim that the teachers in state schools are worse (the same teachers have often worked in both sectors) - but they are frequently very overstretched, and I think there is a growing staffing and leadership crisis in parts of the state sector. Anecdotal of course, but of the state secondary schools near me, three are without a head at the moment, one having been without a permanent head for the last three years, and one of the other two is already on its third round of headship recruitment, having failed to recruit in the first two rounds. One of my DC in particular had an almost comical revolving door of teachers and supply cover throughout primary because of illness, stress, and failure to recruit. Stability of staffing is one of the big reasons we went for private in the end. It's not that the teachers are better - but they are often (depending on the school of course) better resourced and better supported. Pre-Covid, the DC had almost zero teacher absence (even during Covid it was pretty low), and when teachers are off, lessons are almost invariably taught by another member of the department, because they presumably have enough 'slack' in their timetable to be able to do this. Talking to friends with kids in other schools, having every lesson taught by a subject specialist is a bit of a luxury these days.

It's not about private education or state education, it's about a good education or bad education. If you have a good state option, of course, you don't need to spend money on private education. I would suggest you to collect more information on the local state option.

We made a bad choice, as our local state school sounds good, has good GCSE result, and DC's friends are all going to this local state school. So DC has gone to this school. In the end, I think school teachers are doing a wonderful job, teaching are good, but there are a big potion of children don't care about learning, their behaviors are bad. DC is not happy at all, so we are moving him now.