If your child got a Music or Academic scholarship at 11, what sort of level/ ability were they?

[Gameboy]

DS1 is only Year 3 at the moment, but I just had a conversation with his music teacher who said he thought he was very musically talented, and asked if I was considering him for a Music Scholarship for the Independent Grammar school.
I was a bit blown away to be honest, as
a) I was obviously pleased to hear about DS's abilities, and
b) I haven't even begun to think about the possibilities of scholarships etc (although we would like him to go to the Grammar if possible)

The reason his teacher asked, was because if we WERE hoping for a scholarship, he felt that DS might want to take up a 2nd instrument in the next couple of years.

So it's now got me wondering about scholarships in general....

If your child got one, what 'level' were they?

e.g. Music Grade level (e.g.Associated Board)
Did they play more than one instrrument?
Did they have 'theory' exam rsults?

or for Academic Scholarships

• where in their class do you think they were e.g. Top 2-3 children etc?

Do you / the school pretty much know which children are likely to get scholarships i.e. is it REALLY obvious by say Year 4/5 ?

Dd1 got an academic scholarship to one of the london independent schools at 11 (we didn't take it up though, she went to the state grammar school).

Tbh, she was the top in her class by some margin, and still is even in a selective school. She also got the highest mark in the grammar school entrance exams (they ranked them, and told us the rankings).

I think it's almost impossible to predict scholarships -- dd1 didn't get a scholarship or even an exhibition to the other independent school we applied to, though she did get a place. I have a sneaking suspicion that kids from prep schools are more likely to get scholarships, since I think the heads of 2ndary schools dispense them in order to keep the prep schools onside.

Music scholarships I believe you have to be at least Grade 5/6 in at least one instrument, but it's not my cabbage patch. I do know that people who are after these push their kids like crazy, so you have to decide whether that's you, unless your child is clearly the next jacqueline du pre.

We're due to have a meeting re: next schools this term for ds (Year5) following a more general discussion last year. Not expecting ot be told ds is scholarship material tbh, unfortunately, but some just award academic ones based on entrance exam papers rather than a specific application. There are several far more obvious candidates (some of whom have had them since Year 3 and won academic prizes). A quick look as part of my preparation for the discussion has suggested that for specific music scholarships a second instrument may be helpful but not obligatory and Grade 4 (11+) and 5 (13+) on the primary instrument was a standard for one school plsu it tested generl music skills , sight reading etc.

What's an 'exhibition' Frogs?

Thanks LIZS. I think you're near me actually - you're not talking about RGS by any chance are you??

Oh am I ? whereabouts are you then ? Actually no it isn't, although I know 2 of those initials but wasn't referring to either ! One north of M25 if it helps !

An exhibition is half a scholarship, gameboy, or at least in the London system it is. Ie. scholarship = half fees, exhibition = quarter fees, ie. you pay three quarters.

They may also do bursaries, which are also somewhat competitive, but based on parental income. Scholarships in the trad sense are based purely on academic performance, not on financial need.

Our nearest independent school says that children must be at least Grade 3 on their principal instrument at 11 and they are expected to already be exam level on their second instrument.

Near us an exhibition is a lump sum off the fees (sometimes as low as £100) as opposed to the percentage reduction you get with a scholarship.

The one I looked at was 25% fees for Music, Art etc but up to 50% Academic. Every little counts though .

I got one (Academic)and my dd2 would have done (according to her school) but we didn't put her in for it, we were both top of our class through primary school.

It really depends on ability and the child for a music scholarship.

DS1 is going for one this year and he is grade 6 in two instruments and grade in another. he also has a good around music ability due to his chorister years. He is in year 9.

I would phone the school and ask them.

ours will be means tested - if he gets it

Elenya - really?

That is not the case here - grade 3 at age 11 is pretty normal - but the school specialises in music

ds1 mate was grade 5 in trumpet and piano when he got his place in year 6

LIZS - sorry, I'm wrong - I thought you were in Surrey for some reason!

The music scholarship for our Indep Grammar is worth £1000 a year I think which is about 13% of the fees? Not huge, but it all helps. It's possible to get an academic scholarship + music, or an 'all-rounder' (what on earth is an all-rounder, anyway?)

Why do schools offer scholarships to families who could (and probably would) otherwise pay? What's the incentive for them - to get the best pupils?

(Beetroot - can you comment on my other thread about playing music together as a family??? )

pleeeease...

I've had a quick look at the dcs school results - those getting music scholarships at 11 had at least grade 3 in 2 instruments (and typically had grade 4 or 5 in one) At 13 they had at least grade 5 in two. But that may be skewed as everyone learns at least two instruments for a year from Year 3, and most carry on.

The academic one is harder to answer as it is a prep school so is obviously aiming for a large number of scholarships.

I am, I meant north as inside ! Think I've narrowed it down now. All-rounder (at same school as I referred to earlier) means reaching scholarship standard in at least 2 subjects (Music, art, sport, science etc) and good academically but each will define it differently. Not sure exactly how it is tested or whether those on All-rounders are taken from those who would have got specific ones anyway. Generally there is a move away from open scholarships to means tested scholarships and bursaries, as part of the charity status.

I think that the biggest saving for a music scholar is that typically music lessons are free.

Why aren't scholarships means-tested? Well in value they've been cut back considerably - I had a full scholarship at school which seems to be a thing of the past. But in part it is to continue to attract those candidates seen to have the most potential to succeed academically or musically and bring further kudos to the school. Private schools operate in a larger geographic marketplace to state school typically, and if there are grammars nearby they will have to take that into account too. Over the last few years I've seen 5-6 families per year turn down a scholarship in favour of a grammar school place.

Our school says:
A standard roughly equivalent to Grade 5 at Year 7, and this is minimum requirement for Year 9. Proficiency on a second instrument may be an advantage. Prefer flute, trombone or string instrument. Expected to have good aural skills and sight reading ability.
At sixth form, it is Grade 7/8.

fembear - LOL at "Prefer flute, trombone or string instrument" - do you think the orchestra is lacking some particular instruments!!

LOL. Actually the orchestra is fab and a real eye-opener after DD's previous grim school.

can you link it?

At my dcs school most of the music scholars were around grade 5 on 2 instruments at 11 or in some cases more. Some had done grade 5 theory (generally the ones that were grade 6+ on first instrument). Some of them hadn't done any music exams but were that standard (they either did suzuki or went to London junior departments and didn't do exams). Other years the standard has been slightly lower sometimes, but I think generally they all do at least 2 instruments and usually sing as well. But at our school there are other music awards too - Ds had just done grade 2 on both his instruments and was given a bursary (that's not means tested in this case but equates to free music lessons but no fee discount throughout senior school). So it's worth finding out what they offer at your particular school.

On the academic side it was the top 4ish from the junior school that got scholarships.

that sounds about the same for us snorkle

It really does depend on the school, and to a certain extent on the competition in that particular year.

DD1 got music scholarships to both Chelt Ladies' College and to a 'lesser' private school - she was grade 5/6 on violin and piano and was very musical (later went to Music College) The first school's was worth 33% of fees and the second school's 50%, which was raised to 87% when she was 16 (we chose the 'lesser' school rather than CLC).

DD2 was the same grade on paper when she went in for schols. and didn't gain one at CLC - they said the competition that year was just too high. (I feel also she wasn't as 'musical' and they could tell!) She was highly academic and got an academic/music scholarship to School 2, of 50%, but with a means-tested bursary which took it up to nearly full fees - very generous indeed. (We turned it down as it happens, having been disillusioned by private schools, and she went to the local grammar instead.)

Some schools say they are looking for potential, rather than paper grades (it will be in the schools' admission info somewhere) and agree with LadyMuck, free music lessons in two instruments (and even a third if you have time) is a BIG saving over the years. Also, a music scholar in a private school will (mostly) get lots more opportunities for music practice and performance and playing with others in quartets, etc, than in (most) state schools so if he's really musical it might be a good opportunity for him. He might be awarded something off the fees and the free lessons even if he doesn't win one of the bigger awards.

yes agree

If you are a music speicalist you are given time in school to practice.

DS has 5 sessions per week for practice, it means he misses Cooking and ICT I think. and he has chosen to miss art for practice now as well.

Not sure because my son got his at age 12. At that age he had grade 8 singing, grade 6 trumpet or was it cornet and grade 5 or 6 piano and grade 5 theory too. One of his sisters tried for one at 11 but didn't get it. She probably had something like grade 4 or 5 piano, grade 3 singing and grade 5 piano (and grade 5 theory). Their father puts lots of children in for music scholarships at all kinds of schools every year. I think his school got more scholarships in the SE/London than any other school or certainly a goood and each year it was handful of those who really stood out like the Japanese boy on grade 8 violin etc. They virtually all had at least 2 instruments, may be some theory exams too and sometimes a third fun thing too. I think for age 11 usually you'd expect grade 4 or 5 on the main instrument and something not too different on a second.

But try and as people said above schools do differ a lot in what they're after and many are after potential. Also some teachers and pupils don't do exams on principle and the children can be really good but have nothing on paper. I think our eldest also tried for a music scholarship at 11+ and didn't get it. She would have been something like grade 5 clarinet, grade 3 piano and grade 5 signing I think although she did grade 8 singing eventually.

Also if children are struggling for university UCAS points (have bad A levels etc) exams at grade 6 and above get you credit in those so they're worth accumulating even for just that purpose for some chidlren.