If your child got a Music or Academic scholarship at 11, what sort of level/ ability were they?

[Gameboy]

DS1 is only Year 3 at the moment, but I just had a conversation with his music teacher who said he thought he was very musically talented, and asked if I was considering him for a Music Scholarship for the Independent Grammar school.
I was a bit blown away to be honest, as
a) I was obviously pleased to hear about DS's abilities, and
b) I haven't even begun to think about the possibilities of scholarships etc (although we would like him to go to the Grammar if possible)

The reason his teacher asked, was because if we WERE hoping for a scholarship, he felt that DS might want to take up a 2nd instrument in the next couple of years.

So it's now got me wondering about scholarships in general....

If your child got one, what 'level' were they?

e.g. Music Grade level (e.g.Associated Board)
Did they play more than one instrrument?
Did they have 'theory' exam rsults?

or for Academic Scholarships

• where in their class do you think they were e.g. Top 2-3 children etc?

Do you / the school pretty much know which children are likely to get scholarships i.e. is it REALLY obvious by say Year 4/5 ?

Beetroot,
I think that is the minimum requirement - they are actually looking for more!

IIRC, LadyMuck is in the same part of the world as me so the info from her children's Prep would be a more accurate reflection of what is required.

I do know of one boy who was so musically accomplished that he was accepted by the local school despite failing the entrance exam.

My DD is going for an academic scholarship this month. Her primary school teachers have assessed her at the top of level 5 (the limit of their tests), but they assume that she is well into level 6. She is the top of her primary class.

She has been doing VR/NVR tests this holiday to familiarise herself with them.

We don't have any musical ability in our family, but I recall that independent schools are quite specific about grades before they will consider a scholarship (I have in my mind grade 7, but that was for a pupil of mine that was trying out for Charterhouse). If you meet the grade, they will then have you in for an audition. They will also tend to require two areass of musical excellence, eg the instrument plus voice, or two instruments.

ds1 has an 'all-rounder' scholarship because he's academic plus sporty - he was top of the boys in his class at primary school

at his school afaik the biggest scholarship you can get is around 25% off the fees - but 10-15% is much more common - the idea I think is to spread the money around more widely

bursaries can be up to 100% but they're pretty fiercely means-tested and families which aren't particularly well-off by most standards wouldn't be eligible

I assume the reason scholarships are offered to pupils whose families would be able to afford the fees is to attract the strongest possible cohort of pupils, especially when many children are offered places at more than one school. Ds's scholarship certainly helped tip the balance in favour of his current school, not so much because of the reduction in fees, but more because he was so pleased they really wanted him

Not easy to predict scholarships tbh. Depends on the school. For an academic scholarship I would expect top of the class by some margin in a school without lots of bright children.

In a school with lots of bright children, maybe top 1 or 2 might be enough. My DD is trying for a scholarship into year 7 (she is year 5 now and they don't exist before 11 and her school is very academic and selective now) but I am not holding my breath.

She is in the top 3 and has achieved the form prize and she is top in a couple of subjects but not top by a margin and way ahead. The school is encouraging her to try for it so she probably will but the odds are against her I think.

With your case, a music scholarship sounds like a really good proposition. Good luck and am bumping this for you as genuinely interested.

Depends on the school. The school where I worked, there would often be 11 year olds coming in with grade 8. But one of my piano pupils got a music exhibition recently, with grade 3 distinction, but about to take grade 5.

I would have thought being grade 5 was about the right level for most schools for a full blown music scholarship (including some reduction of fees), and Grade 3-4 for an exhibition that would give you free music lessons.

Something else worth remembering is that it is not necessarily the 'absolute standard' that will be the determining factor. Ear tests are really important, and also how quickly they learn - we always used to do a test where they would be given a 'quick study' piece ( a bit less scary than sightreading!) to prepare, which we would then give them a lesson on, to see how well they could respond to a teacher, how much came from them, and how much was spoon fed by a teacher at home. Sometimes the highest grades didn't get a scholarship, because there wasn't much musicality there, just mechanical playing - they would be able to phrase etc, but only because they had been told how to.

A school is more interested in having people who will really CONTRIBUTE to the music department and life of the school, so it's not necessarily the person who's reached the highest number in ABRSM!!!

DS1 got a means tested bursary to his independent school. Difficult to say how good he was academically but he did get the highest ever SATs scores (at the time) at his primary. The boy who got the music scholarship had got Grade 8 with distinction in both piano and violin by the time he started at the school aged 11.

And also note that all this is hugely hugely changing because of the new definition of charity. ALl those chidlren who got discounts on fees with music scholarships but from well off homes like ours are not likely to continue to get them. Labour wants the poor in these schools so schools have to find the money somewhere to help the poor in and they're doing it by taking away financial help from clever or musical rich children.

at dc school they usually get about 200 kids applying for between 10 and 12 places

So as you can imagine we are a little bit on edge

Fembear is on to something though
If your clever son can be steered towards oboe, bassoon, trombone or euphonium (plus strings, esp viola or double bass, because orchestras need loads of these) you could find the welcome anywhere for your ds warmer still gameboy
Good luck
Ds is not musical, but dd is looking as though she might be

French Horn is another one that is in demand!!

Singing can help too (for boys) if they are desperate for really good trebles at 12 or 13+ whose voices haven't broken. Although in my son's case within 6 months of starting his voice had broken and that was the end of that.

well yes I have two ds's with choral scholarships - they are 45% here but can be up to 80%

heavy commitment though - 7 day week!!

a choral scholarship is one heck of a commitment.

We have been 'tipped the wink' that dd would get one. she has exceptional pitch, and amazing voice and plays the cello and piano,

But tbh for us as a family, it would be too much of a commitment.
you have to look at it in the context of the whole family.

For those that it suits, it is a musical education second to none.

MB - talk to me about it if you fancy.

It is a commitment but it is also very special - we the chorister parents are supportive and caring and always there for each other.

I would not have had it any other way we now have three in there.

We have 'chorister for a day' every year - this can give your dd a idea of what it is like.

MB - I think choral scholarships are great! Depending on where you are, there may be somewhere with a similar set up, but not so much commitment - eg where I work we have choristers who are paid, they do 3 Sunday services, then 2 weekday evening rehearsals. Plus extra services for feast days/Christmas/Easter etc. I'm hoping ds1 will become a chorister next year (2009).

Gameboy, if I've got it right now the one you are considering has a choir school in the feeder prep in which case the competition may be fiercer than the school I was referring to.

Oh I agree tat they are great. And I know about them, since dd is already in the school (and has been since she was 3). It would just be a huge commitment for dd and for all of us. Dd would have to give up a lot of the things that she enjoys.

On balance it isn't right for our family, but I can see that it is right for other people

We probably will look to getting her voice trained once she starts in the senior school (music teacher keeps asking me and hinting heavily!) as she is a girl we don't have the same pressure of puberty on the voice. The school also has an exceptionally good chamber choir which she is keen to join, and would suit her , and us , better than the cathedral choir.

Hi - I applied for music scholarships/music school when I was 11 1/2 - I'd been playing music for about 1 1/2yrs at the time

I was only just Grade 4 on my main instrument, about Grade 2/3 on my other. I also had my Grade 3 (I think) theory.

IME anywhere decent will be looking at musicianship and potential rather than "grades" - at the end of the day it's not really that hard to "learn the notes" to get even a Grade 8, but to play with expression and feeling takes more - and that is what most will be looking for.

mb - which cathedral are you near? Some of the girls choirs don't have anything like the commitment of the boys choirs - eg at our local cathedral the girls do 1 evensong a week, plus 1 practice (but the same day of the week iyswim, so only one evening), and then occasional Sunday stuff. Might be an easier balance? But it depends on what the set up is - I know at Salisbury it is more even between the choirs.

LIZS - dammit (!) you're right about the choristers at the feeder, and the school I was referring to! I'd forgotton about RstM, and DS isn't at that Prep!

Re: academic scholarships to private schools, worth checking what kind of clause it comes with - I mention this just because I know that at the (rather minor) public school I was at until 15, taking up the scholarship at 11 came with a commitment to stay for the sixth form - I just missed the scholarship on entry and in the end this was a blessing, I moved at 15 to a vastly better school for which I got a sixth form scholarship. Maybe this kind of clause is unusual, but thought I should mention it. (Also, in this case at least, their judgement at 11+ was not brilliant - I did much better in the end than either of the scholars in my year, and this wasn't just me, it was quite noticeable about the school in general.)

the girls are very part time here!!!

the girls do 50% where dd goes....don't want to say as it will locate me rather too well.

TheIceQueen - you're spot on about overall musicianship and natural ability being more important than 'playing the right notes'. My dh teaches in one of the music specialist schools and ds has just finished after 4 and half yrs as a chorister. DH has seen lots of kids who are 'pushed'through the grades without necessarily being naturally fired up to be a musician. For these scholarships, a child needs to be absolutely determined to make music their main focus. They need to be prepared to compromise in other areas of life, and it's also worth remembering that there are regular asessments to check the child is up to scratch, or they risk losing the dfes funds - so it's not just a case of securing it once. Having said all that, I would certainly consider going for a scholarship if i had a child who was intending to go into music professionally. The chorister thing is a huge commitment, true, but your child will get a first class musical training plus many amazing opportunities - tours etc. It worked well for our ds, but then my dh worked at the school (I couldnt be doing with all the dropping off/picking up at all hours like some parents have to cope with). We also liked the fact that for a boy, being a chorister has a definite life span - they can soak it up, enjoy it and then move on, rather than having to make a music commitment til theyre 18. Our ds loved it (well, til the last term when he was desperate to leave lol) but equally, is really happy to have left now and have more time to spend with his mates.