Ideal size for a primary school?

[TheFoldOx]

We're looking t moving house next year to a new area. Not fixed on the exact location, but obviously schools come into the decision making process. I've found lots of useful data online, and looking at the schools that perform well academically and are also not oversubscribed a nice combination to have), they range in size quite considerably.

Eldest DS is currently at a school of nearly 300, with three classes for every two school years (i.e. three mixed y1/y2 classes etc). Possible primaries when we move are all smaller, ranging from 180ish (so 25 per year) through to the very small, 30-40 in the whole school.

Clearly there are advantages and disadvantages to both larger and smaller schools. More personal attention in the small schools, but less choice of friends, limited extra-curricular activities etc. If you have experience with the smaller end, how did you and you children find it? pros and cons? Would you choose that size of school again?

I would avoid any school with mixed year griups or only 15 in a year personally. Having had girls and seen friends go through small schools it can be great when very small and really difficult friendship wise as they get older.

I think if its a through primary then 2 classes a year is ideal as its good to be able to mix.

With separate infants and juniors 3 can be good too for mix of friends though being too huge.

[quote Natsku]@viques Not in the UK, I suspect schools are much better funded, class sizes over 25 are considered overcrowded but her class is exceptionally small, possible smaller intake in her year. Her class has several children with additional needs though so needs to be small to function adequately. Imagine if education was better funded in the UK and class sizes could be much more reasonable and teachers less overworked.[/quote]
Sadly the workload would be the same unless you had a class who were miraculously all working at exactly the same level and with exactly the same targets across all curriculum areas. The marking would be less though.

I do like that in our 3 class year they can be setted for maths as they get older. And can mix for pe etc.

My DC's primary was one form entry so about 200 children in total. I think that was good - big enough to have choice for friendships, small enough so that they all knew each other.

If I'd had to choose bigger or smaller, I'd have gone for bigger rather than smaller.

Id have hated the same class for 7 years personally! And glad there's been a chance to mix up a bit for mine. If there's a difficult group you're pretty stuck!

I can see in rural areas there also isn't the choice for bigger!

My kids are at a 6 form entry junior school. There are 210 per year/840 in the school when at capacity.
It does often feel hectic and communication can sometimes be poor - not sure if that's down to the size of the school though! But, they have a huge range of after school opportunities and do some great enrichment activities. They usually do a re-jig of classes at the end of year 4.

Weve been through 6 primary schools in our time (not all in the UK, but all English or British international (read English)).
The best were both three form intakes - with about 80 kids per year. They had enough kids for teams, clubs, and different personalities, but the heads still knew everyone.
The one form intake was claustrophobic, with limited friendship opportunities if you were even slightly qwirky. The 10 form intake (yes, 300 kids per year) was massive, but had to break itself into smaller parts of 2 or 3 year groups.
I'd go for 2/3 form intakes. Maybe 4.

DC go to a big primary school (much bigger than most of these) and I don’t like it. I don’t feel they actually get any more opportunities than smaller schools - in fact I feel there is much less opportunity to do things like represent your school
as there are just so many more children but they still only have one school football team for example. Plus they never do anything like proper drama or music as there are too many children to rehearse so every production is dreary singing and dancing to a backing track.

Wow 6 forms!!

I agree i woild go 2 or 3.

We live in a very built up area, but a new secondary has opened local which is 50 students per year. The school itself and the opportunities it offers are amazing, but the smallness is scary.

Wow I think I'd have to think twice about such a small secondary. They'd have to be limited at GCSE due to low number of staff surely?

There are fewer than 50 kids in my kids’ secondary. The full standard array of subjects is offered - even if only one student is interested.

They split into 4 smaller groups of 14. Still do a set number of GCSEs.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

We live in a very built up area, but a new secondary has opened local which is 50 students per year. The school itself and the opportunities it offers are amazing, but the smallness is scary.

Holy moly that's a tiny school let alone for a secondary. I'd be absolutely astounded if it lasted long enough for even one cohort to get from year 7-11, it doesn't sound even remotely viable.

I have taught small sets but those GCSe sets would have to small, and a limited number of gcse choices surely? Or staff doubling up what they teach?

No its either not viable or a very small selection of prechosen gcses surely? Or distance packages.

I went to a small primary. When I started it only went to year 4 and was 1 class to every 2 years- about 60 kids in total I think. By the end of my time there it had expanded to year 6 and 1 class to every year but still only about 100 kids. 19 kids in my year. I absolutely loved it. I knew everyone in the school and felt very comfortable there. I never had an issue with friendships- maybe we were just lucky but the year just seemed to all get on, we mixed a lot more with other years than I think we would have done with a bigger year group.
I was reasonably academic and never felt I wasn't pushed in fact in my big secondary I was very much left to coast along, I was happy to and nobody had the attention to push that where as in primary they did.
I found it gave me opportunities I wouldn't otherwise have got- I am not athletic but loved playing sports and got to represent my school even though our teams were rubbish! However I guess if you have a child who is very good at sports that would be a downside.

However this was in the 90's and things have obviously changed. Extra curricular stuff wasn't big then and we only had a very few after school clubs.
Ways of funding have probably changed too.

I really don’t think size matters - it’s the feel of the school, the parents, the management. I know children at our massive primary who are thriving and children who are struggling at two local small faith schools. And vice versa. The main factor that drives this is the cohort of children in their class. If the child has good solid friendships, the class as a whole are keen to learn and the teacher is good, your child will thrive. Personally I would not send my child to a one form entry school as there is no option to move to another class if the need arises.

Yes thats the real problem with a small school isnt it. It's completely dependent on that class and although one child might have had a good experience another could feel left out or not able to find their tribe. At least with more than one class you can mix up a bit and change the dynamic.

I've worked in 5 primary schools:

1 form entry R-6
1 form entry Junior + 2 SEN base classes
35 kids in total (Special)
4 form entry + school nursery + 5 SEN base classes
2 form entry R-6 + 2 SEN base classes

IMO 2 form entry is the perfect size. Reasonable funding to allow a range of opportunities, decent size facility, enough staff to allow a range of specialisms and to share the workload but also small enough to feel like a single community and for the staff to know the children well across the school.

I think a smaller is preferable but, if I were you, I would judge the school on the head teacher. If the head teacher is kind and intelligent, there is a much better chance of your child being happy there

By Yr 6, kids in a small primary are often absolutely sick of each other. If there’s only 15 in your year group, you are thrown together all the time, even if you don’t particularly get on. It often leads to a stressful last couple of years in primary. I would not want that for my DCs. What seems cozy and nurturing in Reception can feel claustrophobic and stifling by Year 6.

Exactly this. My DC went to a primary school with 15 children intake each year. Reception/year 1 was lovely but my DDs year was a difficult bunch and really the only thing most of them had in common was that they went to the same school. By year 6 they were all falling out and miserable. DS’s year was marginally better. The point about SEN provision is true, too. We thought we were doing the right thing sending then to a small village school (the only catchment school) but I do wonder if they’d have enjoyed primary more if they’d been at a bigger school with more children to find actual friends and have more support with their school work.

DS was in a school of 700 then a single form entry school for a term. The bigger school mixed classes every year so they had many more opportunities for friendships, DS was also in a mixed age class one year which he enjoyed. The smaller school wasn't ideal as there were only 9 other boys in the year and DS didn't really connect with any of them. He pretty much just waited until he could get out and into secondary.

Ideally, I'd pick 2 form entry and classes mixed every year.