Advice needed as to how to approach ds's teacher. (LONG!)

[Lonelymum]

I know this has been done to death, but I would really like some advice. And none of the following is showing off - I genuinely want the opinion of anyone who has experience of this either as a teacher or as a parent.
My son, in Yr 2, is academically gifted, especially in Maths. Last year, as a Yr 1 child, he was lucky enough to be taught in a mixed Yr 1/2 class and took all his Maths lessons with the Yr 2. He was top of his class, despite being with chiildren a year older than himself. This year, he is in a single year class, and is doing the same Yr 2 Maths curriculum as he did last year. The headteacher originally said he would receive an individual programme of work, but his class teacher said she couldn't do that, but would give him extension work. Both dh and I got the impression she wasn't bothered about our son because he already knew enough to do well in the SATs. She is not an approachable woman by any means.
Lately ds has become unhappy, complains of tummy aches which lead to nothing, and last night admitted he didn't want to go to school (even said there was no point going to school) because he doesn't learn anything. I said that can't be true but he insists he learns nothing in Maths, which I believe may well be true. I decided to take the bull by the horns and try to deal with this again, as it is not fair that my son does not develop his Maths talent this year. I don't believe the answer is giving him work at home. That is allowing the school to cop out IMO. I still have his Maths work from last year, and so I went into school this morning and made an appt to see this year's Maths work this afternoon (though not his teacher as she became very defensive and said she would not be able to see me today, but would see me another day). I don't want to wind he up and turn her against my son, but I have to try to resolve this. I am a former teacher myself and not a very tactful person, so can anyone advise me how I should tackle my meeting with his teacher, if I find that he is indeed doing the same work as last year?

If he has been "classed" as academically gifted, you could ask to check on the school's policy for such children and speak to the Special Needs Coordinator (SENCO)which may be a way round talking to his class teacher - or make an appointment with the Head. Sorry if you've done this already. I don't know very much about it TBH but it really makes me mad when schools say they will do stuff like this and then don't. My niece's school have told my sister that she should get a maths tutor - they should be bloody well teaching her to count!

Well, I saw red when I first approached his teacher at the beginning of term because she said to me "You are a teacher, you teach him!" That is really not the point. I want a return on the taxes I pay into the education system (or dh pays now as I am a SAHM!) and I want my son to be treated equally with all the other children in school, ie given an education to suit his ability.

That's outrageous LM! (Sorry - if you are a teacher, you probably know about SENCOs and stuff - hope you someone more helpful comes on soon )

Depressingly, the teacher responsible for gifted children in the school seems to take the same attitude as the class teacher, that these children manage well enough by themselves. However, she will be next on my list if I get nowhere with class teacher.

Lonelymum, i'm sure there are a few mums on here who have had threads about gifted children.
What about if you changed the thread title to get their attention as i'm sure they'll have good advice?

Can I do that Angeliz? How?

Don't know

Maybe start a new thread and cut and paste these posts?

LM, don't want to depress you, but we've been there and done that, in every class since Y1 (dd1 is now in Y5).

I've tried pretty much every tactic in the book -- meetings with the head, deputy, class teacher, senco, waving an Ed Psych's statement at them (and my dd1's scores are pretty extreme), with very little actual effect. The school make all the right noises: 'Your child has the right to an education that meets her needs', blah blah blah, but the actual provision ranges from the pitiful to the non-existent.

As you have correctly identified, the school have no vested interest in these kids, as they are measured on the no. of kids who get the basic level ie. L2 or L4 in Y2 and Y6 respectively. Children who will get the higher level with both hands tied behind their backs are simply left in a corner to get on with it, since there's no pay-off for the school in making an effort with them. Even if they play up, which my dd1 does, it's not really seen as a problem, as there are lower-ability kids whose behaviour is much more extreme. Needless to say, endless resources and effort are poured into these kids.

I know that working with your child at home is a cop-out in some sense, but you have to decide what really matters -- that your child should be working to his/her ability, or that you should win your battle with the school (which you never really can, anyway).

I recommend the DK maths books, and the Bond assessment papers. 20 mins a day after breakfast has done the trick for us....

Roisin may be along with some better news, as I know her ds's school has made better provision for him. But in the end the only person with your child's interests at heart is going to be you.

Why write to and then go back and see the headteacher?
I recently did this and found it quite useful.. I think as Roisin said it also helps the head have an idea of what is going on!

that should be- why not write to headteacher outlining concerns, and asking for an appointment?

Same problem here and also getting nowhere with the school our child is now in y4. Wished from the early days that my husband would agree to private school but he would not and still wont. (It would mean money that we use for holidays and savings.) Plus our child is happy at school just not happy with some lessons. I think it must be hard for some teachers due to pressures from all angles but it doesn't help individuals who are not given the chance to progress. It gets me down all the time due to odd comments from child and then blah blah rubbish and negative blah comments from teacher after teacher after teacher. I guess I am just seen as pushy even though I try hard to be the opposite and just ask them for their thoughts/advise. I don't feel I can give our child extra tuition and what would be the point anyway as the school would not be helping. Sorry can't help.

Frogs, can't help being curious, what the the DK maths books and bond assessments?

DK = Dorling Kindersley = publisher.

If you go to any big bookshop (Waterstones or Borders etc.) they'll have a big selection of books you can use at home with your child. I mentioned Bond and DK in particular because they're quite logically laid out and free of silly gimmicks.

To be fair this conversation came up when I was meeting with ds1's (year 1) teacher to discuss ds1. DS1 has the greatest needs in the school and they are not met, she said that they had the same problem with children at the opposite end of the scale- schools simply do not have the resources to meet the needs of children who are far away from the average. I'm not saying its right, or its fair but it is the way it is.

Having spent a lot of energy on working the system to ensure that we would get what was our sons right- (eg making sure that SALT was in his statement- fat lot of good that did- despite it being a legal docurment he still didn't see a SALT for 8 months- when the school got one visit)- I came to the conclusion that if you can do it yourself you will get further, get a lot less stressed and your childs needs will be met. Sure try and make sure that maths is more suitable for him in school, but if you are serious about ensuring he fulfills his talent you will probably be better off looking for help outside school. As I said before - it's not right - but it probably is realistic.

Oh how depressing (but not unexpected).
Frogs - I have bought some workbooks for ds, but he isn't keen to do work at home, understandably. Actually, I hate the fact that infant children have homework at all, but there you go. A decent education during school hours should be sufficient.
Unicorn - yes, ultimately, I am building towards an appt with the head (another totally unapproachable man - sigh!) but I feel I owe the class teacher the chance to put her case and explain exactly what is being done for ds.
Color - you should be married to my dh! His answer is to transfer to a private school but that is not possible:
a) we have three children in school and I would want them to stay at the same school (plus No 4 starting school in 3 years)
b) as you said, ds is happy socially in school and has many friends
c) would a private school necessarily be any better?
d) As an ex-state sector teacher, I feel the state system should provide our children with a proper education - why should we fork out more money?
e) We couldn't afford one term's worth of fees for one child let alone four!
Oh dear, I wish I knew the answer!

Jimjams, interesting that we should both come to the same conclusion from different angles. BTW I didn't mean to imply that unlimited resources were available for kids with severe special needs -- the conclusion I've come to is that the schools focus all their energy on the kids who might just possibly scrape a level 4 if they pull all the stops out.

Kids who are either going to be able to do it blindfold or who stand no chance of ever 'passing' are not a priority, particularly if their behaviour is unobtrusive.

LM, like jimjams said, you can inveigh against the injustice of it, but there's a limit to how much fuss you can make before getting so far up the school's nose that it all becomes counterproductive.

I know what you mean, but ds seems so unhappy and will only admit to it being because he is bored at school, and I feel I have to make some effort for him. I have taken a back seat for most of this term, but I can't sit back any longer. I am getting wound up! This is why I wanted advice from an old hand, so I wouldn't barge into the classroom and confront the old witch with all my pent-up frustrations! Sorry, rant over

Frogs- its something that in my experience the teachers are well aware of but unable to do much about. I really like ds1's teacher- and I know she is doing her best for him- but he is so far from the "norm" that he cannot be catered for when schools are struggling to meet the needs of the average (we've been off to look at an sld school today- fantastic for him- because he would be the norm there iyswim).

LM- I have every sympathy for your situation (especially the money one- we are having to pay out over 100 quid a week on basic services that should be provided). And I know it's not right- the state should provide a suitable education for every child. (Note though- their legal requirement is to provide an adequate education - not the best possible education for each child- if he's meeting targets for his age the LEA could argue that he is being adequately provided for). All I'm saying is that if he's off the scale with maths I doubt very much that the resources are there. Now I can bore for Britain on how unfair it is that we have to pay for so many therapies etc for ds1, and how I shouldn't have to chase this person, or ask for that or fight for whatever. But at the end of the day I have found that if I can provide something myself it is easier, much less hassle and more likely to be appropriate than if I try and drag something out of the system that they can't provide. By all means try your best with the school (I carry on doing this with the LEA all the time), but in the meantime make your own arrangements as best you can. In your shoes I'd probably look into Kip mcGrath or something like that to provide the stretching.

Kip Mcgrath?

Kip McGrath

Know what you mean, LM!

In that case, take a deep breath and a calming pill (!) and request a meeting with class teacher.

Say that you're concerned about ds, as he seems to be unhappy at school, and ask for her observations of what he's like in class/playground. This will hopefully make her feel as if you're on her side. At this point it will probably go one of two ways. Either she will agree that he's a bit bored in school and undertake to try and occupy him better, or she'll deadpan it, by saying she doesn't feel there is a problem or even, as happened to me once, imply that any unhappiness is down to stuff going on at home.

At this point you, still smiling sweetly, but gritting your teeth the while, have to start getting assertive and quoting chapter and verse on the work he did last year and what's being asked of him this year, and point out that your child has a right to an education that meets his needs. You can back up your point by showing them work he's done at home, or even Ed Psych's recommendations, though this is bringing in the heavy guns, and may antagonise them.

Eventually you will wring from them some sort of promise that they will at some point try to do something (unspecified). This something may or may not materialise, but is unlikely to be the answer to your problems.

Alternatively, you can treat home as the place where your child learns stuff, while school is the place he goes to make friends and hone his social skills...

Would he not be allowed to sit in on the year 3's math lesson instead of the one he is in. I was always several years ahead in maths and was simply given special dispensation to go to classes with older children (this was however, in the usa 20+ years ago).

SA - no, we begged for that the moment we knew that he was going into a single age class this year. Because Yr 2 is Key Stage One (Infants) and Yr 3 is KS2 (juniors), they have difeerent playtimes, assembly times, etc and the head said it would be too hard to co-ordinate.
Frogs - thanks for that. I am, as I write, getting together all last years work. I briefly told her this am that ds was unhappy and bored and she "deadpanned" me, to use your word, so the battle begins!

Well, didn't go as planned. Teacher stayed to talk to me afterall, and did not let me see his work so I can't say if he is still doing the same as last year. She did tell me how she was stretching him, but it was anecdotal; without the evidence of his work, I can't really tell if she is doing enough. Well, she can't be because ds says work is still too easy. The only positive thing was that she has had a visit from an advisor from the county who specialises in gifted children and this woman is visiting again this week, so maybe she will be able to suggest ideas to the teacher. Otherwise, I am no further forward. And I have been psyching myself up all day to get things sorted. Oh well.

LM, she's flanneling.

I think it's entirely reasonable to want to see your child's school workbooks, and IMO the teacher should have them ready for you at parent-teacher evenings (tho' many don't and seem slightly huffy when you ask to see your child's work). Don't know what the legal position is, but I'd be surprised if she still refuses to let you see the work if you say you'll take the matter up with the head.

If she says she's stretching him, then ask specifically what she's doing to stretch him. For two long years our G & T (=gifted & talented -- appalling term!) provision consisted of taking the kids out once a week and giving them an extra spelling test. When I queried this with the headteacher he got very sniffy, and said 'And what have you got against spelling?'

Slightly disagree with jimjams that teachers are terribly aware of high ability special needs. IME they can deal with 'above average' , but often don't really 'get' very high ability, and don't have the imagination or the energy to get excited about it. A lot of the things they could be doing aren't very resource-intensive anyway -- eg. letting them use the library during literacy hour to research projects, or letting them do eg. touch-typing courses on the computer.

But definitely agree with jimjams about the ultimate futility of expecting the school to provide your child with the kind of education they need and are entitled to that way madness lies. Having said that, I've come on considerably heavier than you describe, LM personally my next step would be to arrange a meeting with the head, or the LEA's G&T co-ordinator, if she's coming into the school. And you have to be persistent, and learn to spot evasions -- think John Humphrys interviewing politicians on the Today programme for inspiration.

What you are asking is reasonable, and you're entitled to answers to your questions, so don't be put off -- but it helps to start with very low expectations of what you can actually achieve. If you want other resources for using at home with your ds, CAT me, as I've got quite a few!