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Original poster

BEBRAS

115 replies

PenceyPrep · 27/11/2021 15:31

DD did the BEBRAS Junior competition earlier this month and has just logged in and found out that she got full marks - 200/200.

This is not a stealth boast - clearly she has done well, but I feel that I need to manage her expectations. She is beside herself with excitement and thinks that this means she is likely to be in the top 60 and will get invited to the finals in Oxford.

I'm probably a terrible parent for thinking this, but I just don't think she's that likely to be in the top 60 of the tens of thousands who sit this. She's a smart girl - particularly good at maths - but I can't help but think they must have made it easier this year and that thousands will have got full marks and they'll somehow pick a fraction of them, and I'll be mopping up the tears.

I've googled but can't find anything to indicate what sort of mark you need to get to the final or whether the marks were particularly high this year.

Can anyone cast any light?

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Mumski45 · 29/11/2021 23:33

I'm a bit confused by your post as how could anyone be above her if she got full marks. I read that it's top 10% that get invited to OUCC so could that not be more than 60? Surely she will be in top 10%.

I've been looking myself as DS scored 189 (only got one question wrong) so I was also wondering where the cut off would be.

Haskell · 29/11/2021 23:36

It's top 10% that are invited to take part in the OUCC, but I understand it's also done online, not in Oxford?

Original poster
PenceyPrep · 30/11/2021 15:08

From my reading there are two follow-on events after the initial round that they've just done: The top 10% get invited to do a follow on competition (online) in Spring, but the top 60 scorers in each age group get invited to a separate, in-person comp in Oxford in Jan/Feb. I'd be amazed if she wasn't in the top 10% (unless something has gone horribly wrong with their question setting this year...) but it's the in-person event in Oxford that she's hoping for.

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violinandpiano · 30/11/2021 22:28

I don't think there are too many full marks. 200/200 should be in top 60. But are you sure they still organize Oxford final competition? It looks from last year they don't have final competition.

Haskell · 01/12/2021 00:04

I am guessing an in-person event would have been cancelled last year, but they may be hopeful to run it this year?

onemouseplace · 01/12/2021 11:42

I think there was one 200/200 this year at DD's school and they've only ever had one before - well done to your DD!

I'd assume they'd have to invite all the 200/200 people to the Oxford event (if they hold it) even if they go over 60 as how else would they differentiate?

Sweetnhappy1 · 01/12/2021 11:55

My DD did the Oxford event online earlier this year. Her Bebras score was quite a bit lower than your child OP.

piisnot3 · 01/12/2021 12:08

Last year there were 57 kids in the juniors who got full marks.
This year I've seen a graph which suggests about 0.2% of the 87000 kids in that age group got full marks, so something like 170 kids. She has done really well.
I gather there is no follow-on Bebras round this year but she should get a distinction certificate and an invite to the OUCC competition in Feb. The first round of that is also online before national finals in oxford.
I should say my info is second-hand through one of the school-level organisers - I've no direct link.

violinandpiano · 01/12/2021 12:47

My dc also said the questions are all easy. She finished and left more than ten minutes. I think Bebras should give more challenge questions in order to know who are really good at logic things.

Original poster
PenceyPrep · 01/12/2021 17:51

@onemouseplace

I think there was one 200/200 this year at DD's school and they've only ever had one before - well done to your DD!

I'd assume they'd have to invite all the 200/200 people to the Oxford event (if they hold it) even if they go over 60 as how else would they differentiate?

I wondered if they might differentiate on speed or something. Although if @piisnot3 is right and they're not running a separate event for the v high scorers this year, it's all academic!

DD's school are a bit chaotic and I wouldn't put it past them to forget that there's some sort of follow-on round, so I'll keep my eye on it.

Where did you see that graph @piisnot3? Sounds very interesting.

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piisnot3 · 01/12/2021 18:27

@PenceyPrep the graph was forwarded to me by someone who acts as bebras admin/coordinator at school level. I am not directly involved.
They also said there's no Bebras follow up round and instead they will be using the weekends in Feb to run the OUCC competition online, then some smaller in-person events in oxford.

violinandpiano · 01/12/2021 18:51

I heard this year 12-14 group got lower scores than other age group. Some 120-130 scores get in top 10%.

Original poster
PenceyPrep · 01/12/2021 19:05

[quote piisnot3]@PenceyPrep the graph was forwarded to me by someone who acts as bebras admin/coordinator at school level. I am not directly involved.
They also said there's no Bebras follow up round and instead they will be using the weekends in Feb to run the OUCC competition online, then some smaller in-person events in oxford.[/quote]
Oh no, DD is going to be gutted that there's no follow-on in Oxford!

Has anyone got experience of the OUCC? Is it the same sort of questions?

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Sweetnhappy · 01/12/2021 19:17

@PenceyPrep my DD did the OUCC competition last year. She found it really difficult, quite different from Bebras.

They have useful prep on their website: oucc.uk/index.php?action=content&id=26

violinandpiano · 01/12/2021 20:29

piisnot3，do you know how many full marks in age 12-14 group this year.

Haskell · 01/12/2021 21:50

@violinandpiano

I heard this year 12-14 group got lower scores than other age group. Some 120-130 scores get in top 10%.
Oh really? DS will be v pleased then! He scored above that, but nowhere near 200/200 Grin OUCC is right up his street, so I was secretly hoping he would get through.
onemouseplace · 01/12/2021 21:52

@violinandpiano

I heard this year 12-14 group got lower scores than other age group. Some 120-130 scores get in top 10%.
What sort of scores usually get into the top 10%? I assumed that DD would be nowhere close given some of the scores mentioned here, but she scored a fair bit about this range.

The BEBRAS website is astonishingly unhelpful.

violinandpiano · 01/12/2021 22:19

I don’t know exactly what scores get into the top 10%. I only found some children who got 127 with Gold award.

Original poster
PenceyPrep · 01/12/2021 22:33

I was just messing about on Twitter and it occurred to me that there might be posts about this year's Bebras, and sure enough, yes there are.
There's not much to illuminate my DD's situation, but a proud parent has posted their kid's gold certificate (intermediate - 12 to 14 years) and they'd scored 127 points, so yes, you are right @violinandpiano.

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piisnot3 · 03/12/2021 14:08

@violinandpiano

piisnot3，do you know how many full marks in age 12-14 group this year.
it looks like not more than 0.01% of 155000 so 16 or less. it's so small on the graph that its hard to see.

12-14 scores systematically lower than 10-12s :
12-14 national average : 73 ; almost no scores 180 or higher
10-12 national average : 83 ; quite a few scores in the 180-190 range.
so not at all consistent across age groups.

there was a similar situation with the OUCC in 2020 - there were wide variations in scoring between age groups but the organisers arbitrarily imposed a threshold of 40+ marks for a distinction, which meant that 14% of the oldest age group got it, but only 1% of the youngest (10-12).
it's almost as if the organisers of OUCC are ... not that good at writing algorithms Shock

stuckasastuckthing · 03/12/2021 14:51

Does anyone know what the cut off for gold award was for the 10-12 age group and the 12-14 age group? DSs' school told them scores but no other information so not sure if either got through to oucc round.

piisnot3 · 03/12/2021 15:31

from the graph I saw it looked like top 10% would be just over 140 for the 10-12's, but around 120 for the 12-14's

stuckasastuckthing · 03/12/2021 15:50

Thanks! DS1 got about 120 in 12-14 so sounds like he's borderline but DS2 got about 160 in 10-12 so hopefully made it through.

messhead53 · 03/12/2021 17:40

My DS (Year 9) got 184. His school haven't mentioned a squeak about it since they did it. I have to confess I am gagging to see how he did compared to everyone else but trying to act chilled whilst biting my knuckles.

Original poster
PenceyPrep · 03/12/2021 18:42

@messhead53

My DS (Year 9) got 184. His school haven't mentioned a squeak about it since they did it. I have to confess I am gagging to see how he did compared to everyone else but trying to act chilled whilst biting my knuckles.
Grin Sounds like intermediate was super-hard this year so your DS has done really well @messhead53. Fingers crossed for him (and you!).
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