The Public School ‘Secrets’

[DadAManger]

Does anyone else have some experience of one of the top 9 public schools as a parent and feel they are beginning to understand the secrets of such institutions? What I observe (broadly) is:

1 - Incredible resources and facilities, which allow the pupils to receive very high standards of teaching and to try lots of different activities and pursue them as far as they possibly can
2 - A no-hiding culture - everyone must contribute to their (small) classes, do serious amounts of additional study, undertake several assignments per week, do activities each day (four activities per week). Everyone - no exceptions
3 - An expectation of excellence and a mindset that the best is expected from everyone each day. Successes are publicly celebrated swiftly
4 - A camaraderie among the boarding houses that is actively encouraged, so that close friendships are quickly formed
5 - Extras such as speaking assignments, debating teams, moots - all of which are aimed at increasing confidence
6 - The PLU factor. Children from similar backgrounds (regardless of nationality) and supportive parents that expect the best to be provided

I did not attend such a school myself, so I notice the differences between my DD’s school and my own rather starkly and find it interesting .

Any other parents observe the above or see other things I have missed?

@ Placido
PLU - what the actual fk. If living in 2021 has taught you anything surely it is that people are individuals, with their own unique character. My friends child at a top prep is non binary and the school are being amazing because unlike you they realise that it is our difference that matters not our likeness.

Yes everyone is an individual - obviously. But what is far more important in England today is that everyone comes from a social class, and what's more, everyone can pretty easily recognise what class everyone else comes from.
No-one is 'classless'. You might not like it, but that's just how this country is - absolutely riddled with class. It matters to educational outcomes, health outcomes, job opportunities, financial outcomes - everything.
Parents who are concerned to stick with 'PLU' know this, whether consciously or instinctively. They want their child to grow into the same social class that they themselves came from, or even 'climb up'.

As one example, marriages across class lines can suffer similar stresses to marriages across religious or ethnic lines - it's not impossible to make a success of it, but there will be additional difficulties. Another example, already mentioned upthread, is the network of connections and opportunities that is cultivated to mutual advantage within the upper-middle and upper classes.

We need to recognise the reality of social class, because we can't fight it by just wishing it away.
Just as the word 'woman' must not be erased, the bold description of the facts of class must not be silenced.
Who benefits when class becomes unmentionable? Why, the privileged of course!

Also wondering what these ‘top’ 9 schools are? I’m presuming nothing to do with results/ league tables as the very prestigious ones are often not at the top

@Placido - Hands up! I didn’t know Eton was since no longer under Ofsted and quite surprised about that frankly but even so, they are still regulated by ISI so not without any accountability as implied by Sunny.

@OP Frankly speaking, if you are waiting to discover what the secrets are AFTER your dc has been at the school then you probably won’t be there in the first place. All that you’ve listed would’ve been discovered at point of application.

@SW1amp I agree with you about the usual arguments against these schools ramping up interest from some quarters.
However we are yet to see the real effect of university quotas / contextual offers and the changing recruitment policies of companies - these changes have started but will be glacially slow but will be the real game changer. No one is going to pay to put their child through a school for them to then be discriminated against at every interview they ever do. A few friends in big London based firms have said there is a real change afoot that will start to show in about 5 years time.

@DadAManger I'll let you in on a little secret. All teachers, regardless of whether they are teaching at fee paying schools or state schools, receive the same teacher training. Teachers at private schools aren't some magic different breed who can get children to achieve more than the teachers at state schools. Some of us have even worked in both the state and private sectors, including top tier boarding schools.

@Tryo
And as everyone who is involved with schools, ISI’s are not robust enough. In the aftermath of the everyone’s invited trauma Ofsted have started to visit some previously un- inspected schools so we will see what the outcome is of those - watch with interest.
You still haven’t told me where I find the Ofsted reports of the other public schools.

@Tryo
I have done your homework for you because you are being a bit tardy about it TBH. So none of the public schools mentioned by @Bloomsburyreader are inspected by Ofsted the only one that had any link was Merchant Taylor’s which did very badly in 2019.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/merchant-taylors-boys-school-warning-notice

I think you owe @Sunnyfreezesushi a public apology and I am also giving you detention and lines - please write out 100 times ‘I will not be a hypocrite by telling people they are posting baseless lies when I am guilty of the very same thing myself.’ Then translate it in to Latin please. By tomorrow morning.
And as extension homework have a little look at the shiteshow which is Ampleforth’s inspections - considered by many to be one of the ‘greats’.
Class dismissed.

@Placido Get over yourself. I’ve admitted my error about the ofsted report. You’re sounding a bit ‘tardy’ yourself.

@Tryo
Your accusation to that poster was really quite horrible.

I posted because I think one of the hard things as a parent is comparing school systems between what you had and what your children experience now.

I went to a very average state comprehensive. At my school, it was really more about “crowd control” and keeping people in the classroom until they left as soon as they could. The academic results were dismal tbh, but that wasn’t really the point as far as they were concerned. This was some time ago and I can’t compare it to how it is now - the school has moved on for sure.

The secrets are not so much secrets I agree - I was being a bit cheeky to describe them as such. But I really was very surprised at how these schools (I looked at a few with my DD) are and how they operate after my own experience. In particular, the point which other posters have picked up on, the expectations of excellence and of pushing people forward to go as far as they can go. Also the confidence which seems to then build alongside that.

FYI, when I was researching independent schools, I didn’t find any inspected by Ofsted (recently, anyway).

Personally I don’t think too much ‘pushing’ is good and can be quite counter productive. Certainly a disaster for some personality types. I really don’t feel there is one school or type of school that is right for every child
I don’t understand why all schools don’t come under ofstead. If you look at the CQC they cover state and private provision

@Placido I made an incorrect assertion about one of two points the poster made against public schools, (their declaration regarding SEN at all independent/public schools is incorrect). I also admitted my error once it was pointed out. You on the other hand seem over invested in that one error hence your long ridiculous post. Read it back to yourself, you haven’t covered yourself in glory either.

@DadAManger
But surely you knew what those things that you are buying were when you signed the contract and paid a deposit. You sound surprised?
Please don’t be disappointed though when you realise - as those who went to public school themselves or have children there have posted here and on other threads - that you can buy an education but you can’t buy happiness at a school however much you pay.
For some children the struggle to fit the mould that a particular public school expects them to means suppressing part of their character. For others the ‘always being busy’ is too much - they are more introverted and can’t find a moment in the boarding day to recharge on their own. For others the expectancy of ‘excellence’ by teachers, house masters and those paying their fees is just too much pressure and they crack. Some children just like being a bit more ordinary however bright or sporty they are.
But for some it is a success and it suits their character - but even they may have hurdles when they integrate back in to normal society at university or the work place; once the bubble pops.
Please don’t feel disappointed in your children if they turn out rather ordinary and mediocre like many of those who go to public schools do - it might mean they are happier for it.

@Tryo actually you rather sneeringly called her out for making false claims whilst hers were correct and yours weren’t. At my public school we were taught to call bullies out.

@Placido - thank you and very good points. I hope the school is ultimately a good fit - DD is the one that liked it and we know others there which helped her get a feel for it, but you point out some realistic pitfalls when the fit isn’t right I think. As parents we do the best we can, with the knowledge we have, but I will remain alert to how the school really fits (and continues to fit) as you suggest.

At my public school we were taught to call bullies out.

@Tryo it is good to hear that your DC’s SEN is being catered for. Did you know about it before joining and make full disclosure so the school was prepared and agreeing to take him on? Because in those instances I do believe that most public schools would help.
Other than that, I simply do not agree with any independent schools (public or not) having the right to expel or manage out any pupil they have taken on except in the most extreme circumstances (eg serious crime committed). Through their admissions process they carry out their due diligence on a child and parental circumstances so once in that should be it.
In a way, I also feel there should be some mandatory form of insurance for school fees if this could be purchased at a relatively reasonable cost. These are children like any others and should have the same about of regulatory protection as any other child. Hence me taking issue with lack of Ofsted regulation. I also do not agree with keeping multiple deposits etc - if the place is filled it should be illegal not to return it. Children are not commodities.

@Orangesarenottheonlyfruit

The thing I have found from both being at a Top 10 school and now my DD going is the sense of duty.

There is a strong sense that you are privileged and should give back to your team, house, community and country.

The boarding thing also fosters a sense of independence, far from the individual snowflake attitude, I would argue it's about inner strength and knowing oneself.
Of course there are a plethora of spoilt dickheads, but there are dickheads in any school.

BTW I fucking HATE the term PLU, especially as I am a pierced, tattoo-ed writer, married to a boy from the rough end of Wembley. There aren't many 'u's at our kid's school!

LOL… because the Tory cabinet, all privately school educated, are famous for ‘giving back’ to society!! Honestly, how could you type that with a straight face given the state of this country

@Sunnyfreezesushi We felt it would be wise to let the schools know upfront and to find out what sort of support they might give him. We met with head of pastoral, SEN co ordinatior and discussed at length with the Head. The ones that we didn’t get a good vibe from, we struck off the list. The particular one he ended up at we met with the head of pastoral care and provided a letter with my dc’s full diagnosis. However, before that he had transferred from state to a prep school and that was before his diagnosis came to light. Infact, it was the prep that picked up on some of his symptoms. When he was leaving, they set up a transition programme especially for him, for the head of pastoral at the new school to meet with the head of pastoral at the prep to discuss DS his symptoms and what to do in classroom situations.

It was another poster you were having the conversation about the right to expel with. Personally I believe each has to taken on a case by case basis whether state or private. The other poster actually said it was ‘rare’ for students to be expelled and the time it had happened, the parents wanted to sue. I’d imagine state schools also expel students from time to time. Like you said in ‘extreme situations’ but we don’t know what the circumstances of this particular expulsion was.

[quote Placido]@bookworm14
I think that goes all ways. I was called some pretty horrid names for going to a public school - toff etc. I came from a very normal background and parents state educated so people were making a judgement based on my school not who I actually was (school fees paid by company as we were expats).
That said I am very glad not to put my children up for that type of name calling - they are very happy being schooled in the same way as 93% of the population, there is a comfort in being part of a majority I know. Just hope they never call people toffs - not sure that word exists anymore?[/quote]
I was called posh, a boffin etc at my state comprehensive, but at least my parents weren’t paying £30k a year for the privilege.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/private-school-eton-sad-little-men-b1904041.html%3famp

I teach in both comps and Public schools, in the music depts.
Public school - pupils are told what to do, and are expected to do it;
State school - pupils are asked if they want to do something, and the school works around the pupils.

Walking around the two schools, one is maintaining by groundsmen to within an inch of it's life, the other is so underfunded it has very little maintenance.

It does create a very different feeling. The public school immediately makes me want to take care about the way I act and present myself so that I 'fit in'; the underfunded comp makes me feel more like everything matters less, including myself. This must be the same for the pupils to some extent?

My own DC have gone to the local comp, a public school (on a very large bursary) and a smaller (not public) private school. There's no secrets to the large public schools. They simply have more money. I bet if the comps had as much money, they would be offering a similar experience to the private schools.

@cosmobrown I think you’re spot on. There is a paradox though which is that grammars tend to have less money per pupil than the comps but manage to instil the ethos of pupils being expected to do what they’re asked.

@LemonWeb but grammar schools take only the brightest pupils. It's not hard to teach those who are very motivated. A top set in a large and socially mixed comprehensive will also have very motivated students. But a comp has to manage many other pupils who are much less able, and some of those will also have complex learning and social needs.