Private schools??

[Hanster85]

Hi everyone,

I wondered if anyone might be able to give me some advice, I'm new to all this education business and know nothing about private / independent schools.

My DD's Grandparents have agreed to part- finance her attending a secondary private school (she's only 3 now), but this has left me thinking that maybe we should pay for her to attend the primary provision for consistency and stability (maintaining friendships etc).

But I don't think we have finished our family just yet & still not sure if we may look to have another baby next year. Grandparents have also said that they will part fund this child's secondary education. But I won't send one child to private primary and not the other (for obvious reasons) & couldn't afford to send two children throughout their primary education.

For this reason, we were looking at her attending a state primary and moving to private school for secondary but really anxious about the impact of this on her. We are looking at Cheadle Hulme School in Greater Manchester.

Does anyone have any experience of this that could share how they found this or any insight into how the system works - or in relation to this school in particular?

Obviously it's a lovely problem to have and we are very grateful, but no idea how to navigate this new situation!

Languages have been a big thing for us too. DS is doing four at GCSE and probably continuing two into sixth form. Local comp does offer both French and Spanish to GCSE, but only two students did an MFL A level last year. I didn't know for certain that this would be a key thing, as DS only did a tiny smattering of French at primary, but languages have turned out to be something he loves. I think the decimation of language teaching in state schools is a tragedy, personally.

Both of ours went to the local primary school, then moved to a private secondary. New friendship groups were no problem.

@Hadalifeonce
Which particular state schools do you know have suffered a decimation in language provision - ie had good provision and now less so?

There are plenty of state schools offering excellent language provision and a number of private schools offering cruddy tuition.
Which schools are you meaning?

@Hadalifeonce Sorry that was meant for @bluedart !!!

As much as I would love my two to attend the private prep, financing the two through the primary years is just too much of a stretch. So they will attend the private secondary. It’s still a long way off as DS has just started reception.

@Breathelicious It's not necessarily about individual schools, it's about numbers overall. In some areas, the numbers taking French or German at GCSE in the last five or so years has fallen by 50%. Source here, but I also have this anecdotally from close family who have taught languages for many years www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47334374. The government dropped the requirement for all children to take a language at GCSE, and numbers have plummeted. There's a perception that languages are a hard option - but the fact is, they teach a whole different skill set that thousands of kids are now missing out on. Maths and English and science are also 'hard' if they're not your thing - but they teach core skills so are compulsory anyway. Not so languages, sadly.

And the drop in numbers makes it hard for schools to continue funding languages for those who do want to take them. Near us, the comps only offer one language (or two but each child can only do one). A few offer more, esp the grammars, but even some of those near us have dropped eg German or Latin in recent years. Some of the comps don't offer any languages at A level. Of course there are still some state schools with great provision, but the recent trend is pretty clear.

@bluedart is that just state schools that have falling numbers???? Loads a kids take languages at our comprehensive! I know friends whose kids at private school don’t take languages! Isn’t it more us as a country???? We don’t believe we have to learn languages!!!!!

Oh yes, I do think it's us as a country, but in some areas, going state will mean you don't have many language options, whereas at private you will.

@bluedart could your friend tell us which areas these are - would be interested to know if it was ours.

No, because it will be very specific to the schools in any given area, I imagine, as to the local provision. But the chart on that BBC link shows that total number of GCSE language exams taken has dropped by about a third nationally since 2002. For us, we actually had decent language provision at the grammars on offer (though only Latin at one, and two have just dropped German), reasonable provision at the faith school we wouldn't have got into, and very poor provision at the comp that we would have got into. The private provision was streets ahead. But it might be different elsewhere.

Wow! Thank you so much for all your responses.

I live in Cheshire and thankfully are spoiled with state schools. I attended a state school throughout and did very well.

But I do like the particular private school I am looking at for secondary education, it seems very nurturing, small classes and highest attainment in the area.

As I say, my little girl is 3 and have lots of time to plan - but I think she will receive a very good education at the state primary. Private provisions are completely alien to me & I am so thankful for all the feedback.

I will contact the school to discuss the benefits of starting in year 4/ hone tutoring, they seem really honest and helpful so hopefully they can advise me on this.

I certainly wouldn't want her to move there in year 4, not pass the entrance exam and have further instability - so would want some reassurance about that.

One poster mentioned being concerned about how my little girls funding was being obtained, but this is not an issue for us and all fine.

It's also really reassuring to here people's experiences of changing their children's provisions, thank you for sharing these with me!

Sorry to labour the point, but I've just read the stats right at the bottom of that article, and some of them are pretty amazing. Fewer than half of children now do a language GCSE. 8% of all language GCSEs are taken at grammar schools, even though there are hardly any of them. And in 37 English LAs, the total number of GCSE language exams taken is less than at Eton

@bluedart
Our local state comp, you can look at the stats of how Many are taking each gcse, and out of 300 in the year inky only about 14 took mfl last year. I thought that was disgraceful!

It's so sad. Partly because learning languages teaches you different skills (even if you don't end up 'using' that language in adult life). Partly because it's another hurdle to kids from non-private non-grammar schools getting certain jobs (the head of the CBI in that article said that there's increasing demand from employers for foreign languages, and I think having learnt another language would make you more confident to study/work abroad, even if it's in a country with a language you don't know). And third, kids are just missing out on the chance to do subjects they might love. At primary, DS always saw himself as a maths kid, but now he's doing four languages at GCSE (two modern, two ancient), because he's realised that those are some of the subjects he actually enjoys most and is best at. If he'd gone to a different school, he'd never have had the chance to find that out. Sorry, rant over!

@MrsMoores

I work in admissions in a private school. Half the yr7 kids come from the prep school and half from local states. Also being in the prep school doesn’t guarantee a place at the senior school. All applicants take the same papers and if a prep school child doesn’t do well they don’t get in.

Parents are advised of this prior to exams and some don’t apply because they have been warned their child is not academically strong enough for the senior school. I know it sounds harsh but that’s the reality of a selective school. Makes me sad for the few who don’t get in when all their friends do.

@MrsMoores is the senior school selection done strictly on the basis of exam scores so that students from the prep school get literally no preference? Or do they explicitly have a different hurdle than girls from outside, e.g., "good enough" rather than "ranking in the top X"? Or do they get the preference in case of "ties"? If so, how wide is the band for ties?

@user149799568 there are lots of factors. If it’s a boy heavy year and we need to balance the genders out then we might take girls with lower exam results but not so low that they’d struggle to keep up. Also if they have a great English result but not so strong in maths we take that in to account.
Prep school kids do tend to get in but they tend to be well prepared for the exams but it isn’t a given.
we don’t just take exam results in to account, if the child is very sporty etc then that helps. Kids also get interviewed, reports and references are also looked at.
Reputation is hugely important to private schools and parents who shout the loudest often get more attention and what they which I really hate.
PM me if you want more info.

The other thing I should say is that all schools are different and unlike state have their own admissions criteria. It depends how selective the school is, if their preference is academia, if there is competition locally with other private schools etc. I’d say never be put off by trying and if it’s a popular oversubscribed school register earlier. In bumper years we sit 100 external candidates and 60 internal candidates for roughly 120 places. If we have more register than we have room to assess then we look to the date of registration as a priority. We just don’t have the room to assess everyone and know we can fill the places easily especially in yr 7.

We don’t tend to have ties in results but if we did the prep school applicant would get the place above the external candidate. It is a very carefully managed process and it is the responsibility of the prep school to advise parents if they think their child is not strong enough to go on to the senior school but they are never not allowed to try. Also SEN plays a part. I know it shouldn’t but some (not all) private are not as well equipped to deal with SEN needs.
This year we are very, very busy with applicants, Last year was crazy too and I thought covid would cause a downturn in applicants, clearly not.

@MrsMoores downturn started already on preps!!!! Everyone says downturn in seniors will be next two years when inflation rockets and food prices go bonkers!!!! We gotta pay for the pandemic somehow!!! Also our local senior has lost all its foreign boarders and can’t charge local day kiddos more to make up for it!!!! Watch this space!!! We aren’t London though!!!!!!!

I’m really surprised at some of the generalisations on here. My daughter has just started at a private prep and if all goes well, my son will follow. We looked at several options (state and private) and there are many things we liked about this school, including:

Small class sizes
Excellent facilities
Family engagement
Excellent academic and non-academic credentials.
The focus on identifying an individual child’s strengths and celebrating those.
The focus on identifying an individual child’s areas for improvement and having the facilities to help them with those.
Helping and advising us on the next steps for senior schools and which senior schools would suit our children’s needs and strengths.
Links with senior schools and the ability to help and advise on appropriate/available scholarships (for example, if they’re particularly gifted at music or science etc).
An ethos of kindness and support.

More than anything I want my children to have a happy and fulfilled school life. I want them to leave school having achieved their potential and with the confidence and opportunity to approach the next steps in life with a similar ethos. That may sound idealistic; however, that was my experience. I went to a state junior and was bright but not the brightest. I was awkward, a bit tubby with big thick glasses and ‘geeky’. I was bullied and totally miserable.

I went to a private senior school where facilities, as I’ve mentioned above, gave me confidence and support. I was challenged, happy and I made friends (some I still have 20+ years later). I loved it. I want my children to be in an environment that has the resource and expertise to nurture them as individuals and our confidence is in the private education system for that.

We’re fortunate in that we have the ability to pay and we can also help them with house deposits too. If our only way of achieving that was through help from in laws we’d still do it. Yes things might go wrong, or I might lose my job, we might have to move area (hopefully not but you never know). I wouldn’t deny my children the opportunity just because there’s potential for things to change for them. What if things don’t change and we hadn’t taken the opportunity, and they missed out? That doesn’t set them the best example. Contingency planning and helping with the changes life can present would be my approach there. Just my views and experiences.

@MrsMoores thank you for your detailed replies. I'm guessing that your school isn't in London. With the sheer number of private schools here, the overlapping effective catchment areas, the number of applications which most students make, and the fact that many top students try for the very few selective state schools, I'm not aware that even the most sought-after schools can make as few as 4 offers for every 3 places they need to fill, let alone assess as few as 4 applicants for every 3 places.