I know it’s been done to death a bit, but private schools

[ImARedCat]

We’ve seen a house we love, but the schools aren’t brilliant (dc are preschoolers so not an issue yet.)

I really like the house but I think husband is put off because of the schools.

I don’t know if private is an option. On paper it is, although it would mean I’d effectively be working for nothing, but would they be the poor children? It’s such a lot of money … is it worth it?

Welcome all thoughts.

In general, private school is worth it if you can comfortably afford it for all your children for the duration of their education, but not if it means two decades of stress and the loss of other opportunities outside of school.

With regard to being the "poor children" that really depends on the school. Many private schools are populated with pupils whose parents make sacrifices to send them there so yours would not be "the poor ones" in that environment. There are, however, other schools where they may well be made to feel that way, either just because most pupils are very wealthy or because some of them go out of their way to point it out.

Our DD is in private. I would only consider it if it doesn’t mean sacrificing holidays, days out, clubs & activities.

DD is only 8 but there is already an awareness of what child won’t be going away or having a birthday party and it’s quite sad to see. They’re a lovely bunch and nobody gets left out, but sadly that won’t be the same for every school.

For us, it is worth it, but like I say I wouldn’t do it at the expense of our lifestyle.

It’s hard to say. To give an idea of numbers, the local private school is effectively just under £15,000 p/a for senior school. That would be easily affordable for one child but for two would be a stretch. I earn £42000 and DH is on more - £70,000, but while we’re comfortable it’s not millionaire territory either.

But I do want them to have all the opportunities possible too of course - so hard!

You also need to factor in fee increases, which are usually above inflation. Also, the cost for the fees is just that - you have on top of that uniform, sports equipment, laptop at many schools now, co-curricular and trips.

Yes, not too worried about those really as one off sorts of payments. It’s the commitment to paying such a lot of money for at least five years that I’m worried about.

We earn more than you but can't afford private without sacrificing lifestyle. I'm happy to pay for tutors instead.

Yes worth it.

No, they won't be the poor kids. There'll be plenty of children there whose parents are making big sacrifices to put them through private school.

I think private schools are a huge waste of money. You can get a very good education in the vast majority of state schools - I went to a very average state and got into a top uni, as did my sister, brother and my dd.

If you are on cusp of affording it I would do ‘state plus’ - the plus can be;
Excellent after school sports with specialist teachers
Fantastic music tuition
Lovely educational trips for whole family
Ditto educational holidays (Rome, Grand Caynon, Australia, The Pyramids, skiing …)
One to one tutors
one to one careers advice from a specialist
as many books and educational resources as you want

Then I would pass on a nice lump sum for a house deposit.

Private school is like a well packaged ready meal ….but the best cooks I know don’t shop for ready meals at Waitrose - they know they can turn Aldi ingredients in to something truly spectacular! If you have the inclination (and time of course) you can turn your life in to a school prospectus that would rival the best in the land!!!! If not I would go for private and let someone else do the heavy work. but remember that private schools employ marketing departments to make things look perfect - the reality is that like at all institutions there are good bits and bad bits.

I would say don't do it unless you can do it comfortably. What if one of you loses their job etc?
In our experience the kids are not smarter, generally the teachers are more enthusiastic (perhaps less frazzled due to smaller classes?) and whilst the core maths and english is much the same (at primary) the extra curricular stuff (sports, music, art, drama) is in another stratosphere. Our children are primary age so I can only compare that - at state primary they had 1 hour per week of PE with a PE teacher and 1 hour per week with their form teacher. At the prep school they get an hour a day and have specialist coaches (swimming, rugby, cricket, netball, hockey etc.). And this is from the age of 7. It is incomparable to the state school. There is also choir, orchestra, ukulele band etc. Our state primary had 1 hour of singing every other week...

I should also add the wraparound care offered by the prep school enables me to continue my well paid job which in turn covers the school fees... if we did state plus driving them to activities every evening I wouldn't be able to hold down my job (state school starting at 9am and finishing at 3.15..). It depends on the 'value' (financial and otherwise) of your job?

@MrPickles73 Completely agree. You cannot compare a state primary and prep, they offer completely different things.
State primary is a good, solid, basic education which you then top up with fantastic extras, prep school is an all-in-one offering, at a price.

My point is that you can offer exactly the same wonderful extra curricular as a prep, if you have the time to do the research and then the running around, and you can actually do it cheaper and save some money for house deposits etc and you can also tailor it for your individual children which, if like my large family they are all very different, works brilliantly. There was so much I didn't utilise at my own boarding school which had incredible facilities, so I have to say I like the fact that I am not paying for the bits I am not using.

But like @MrPickles73 points out this is only feasible if your job works around it which just isn't true for many jobs - mine are at state school at 4pm because they all do after school sports, but then we are off to their other sports/music/drama etc, so it is a busy life.
I do like the fact my children get to meet lots of different children at their various out of school activities, as well as their school friends, but there is no way I could do it if my job didn't work (I am often working in the car whilst they are doing hockey/netball/swimming/choir/Latin tutoring etc!)

My DD1 attends a very expensive day / boarding school (about a 50:50 split). Over half the girls attended state primary schools, moving only to private at 11. This gave their parents a whole lot longer to save up and make it financially achievable.

That said, not all private schools are equal (some I saw just weren’t worth the money), just as not all state schools are equal. There are brilliant and not so great types of each. So it’s far less about state vs private but more a comparison of school against school.

hoopa is quite right. I think the state plus model is easier to achieve if you live in London where all the extra curricular activities are on tap. Where we live in the countryside I just wouldn't be able to find e.g. a child orchestra less than an hour away and if you have more than 1 child and a 9 to 5 job you jus can't do all the trotting around.. also the quality of state schools in places like London have improved massively whereas we live in the sticks they are struggling due to lack of numbers ( both primary and secondary).

Agree about the 'state plus' model being much harder in the sticks and/or when you're working full time. The 'all inclusive' private set up works much better for us. It's also slightly a question of confidence and motivation - IME a less driven kid is more likely to give something a go (particularly something new or slightly outside their comfort zone) when it's right there on offer at lunchtime, their friends are doing it, and it's maybe run by a teacher they like - compared with having to sign up to a club where they don't know anyone, which they have to drive to after school, and where you might have to commit financially without knowing if they're going to like it. Ours have got involved in lots of stuff at school which I doubt they'd actually have signed up for an outside club in (eg cookery, drama, choir, debating etc), as well as the couple of core things that they probably would still have done outside school (eg football).

@MrPickles73 you are right about the rural thing… we are very rural and I am therefore a very busy lady! However we are in a terribly mc area and have a ton on offer at the schools (our secondary has a polo and show jumping team organised by parents so you can imagine the set up!!!) and incredible local sports and music (when I say local… always a drive away!)
it would definitely be easier to have it all in one place, but not necessarily better. And with a large family I like the tailored approach I can give them and not spending money for someone else’s child to play lacrosse, have world class swim pool etc

@thefamilyness
You are so right, I think the ‘state plus’ model works best with resilient, sociable, self-starting children, they have to be able to want to join in with other children that they don’t know very well and do activities outside of a closed bubble.Great for later life skills.

At state school, my dd learnt the clarinet, piano, did county level swimming and took part in debating events, DoE awards etc
Don't discount what your local state schools have to offer until you've checked them out.
One major bonus for my dd was that she also has her feet firmly on the ground having been educated with a wide variety of people from all backgrounds

Thanks for replies.

I think the main disadvantage of the local school is that DC wouldn’t come across a range of backgrounds.

I hear what people say about state school plus, though.

I think private is definitely worth it for senior school, but not really for primary. And I say that as a parent who paid for private from nursery class age! With hindsight (isn’t that a wonderful thing), I would have put him in a good state primary.
He’s now in senior school (a smallish day school, no boarders), and it is really good, he’s very happy. Worth every penny.

@ImARedCat
I guess the most important thing is what are the local fee paying schools like? They really do come in all shapes and sizes. There are many that are not very good at all and you would be wasting your money. There are some that are so fabulous that you might want to beg borrow and steal to get your child in to them.
The only real comparison for you is between those particular state schools and those particular fee paying schools - it isn’t appropriate to have a private versus state plus generic debate without knowing what your other option is.
I am slightly raising an eyebrow that you would have a greater range of children at your particular fee paying school but perhaps you can explain why?

@bluejelly sounds like you were lucky to have great state schools and a daughter able to make the most of them. Sadly I’m not sure everywhere and everyone is in that position.

Re the state plus model - agree this is ideal and I wish I could achieve it. That is what I experienced.
Issues here are
A) we are both doctors with full on jobs, even my supposedly 80% job is 38hrs/wk + a bit of oncall so not that part time! So we would really struggle with the lots of after school activities.
B) very sadly our local state couldn’t support our DS1 with ASD, he spent a term hiding under a table and having panic attacks but ‘exceeding expectations’. Not the schools fault really, the teacher was stretched and trying to control kids with much greater difficulties. Ds2 would have been ok there but logistics of two schools = urgh.
C) we would never persuade DS1 to go to all the extracurricular stuff as his social skills are weak and confidence low. He is much more able to consider it within the context of his prep school.
D) we aren’t blessed with brilliant state options locally

So, I think the exact schools and the exact dc and your jobs are key factors to consider.

The 'range of backgrounds' thing varies too. My DC went to a rural village primary with lots of variation in socio-economic background (from council estate to wealthy) but almost zero ethnic variation (one black kid in the school) because black families tend to be rarer in rural settings. The private school in the nearby town has a lot more black pupils (and those from other ethnic minorities). So it depends what you mean really.

My own take on it is that a good state school is generally better than going private, but if you have rubbish state schools then I would make the sacrifices for private.

Depends what's "wrong" with the state schools really.

If there is a bullying problem (very common), then no amount of private tuition, outside activities will help. A child who is being bullied won't do well in that school, as they'll hate it, become withdrawn, lose interest, maybe start truanting to avoid the bullying etc.

If it's just a low achieving school due to demographics, but has a good control of bullying and most children are actually happy to be there and just struggling academically, that's where private tuition and outside activities can really help the child develop.