Secondary school moving down sets can anyone reassure me

[NautaOcts]

Feeling a bit concerned that dd is being failed academically by us/the school and don’t really understand how it all works.
She’s going into year 9.
Has just got some info through about timetable and is feeling really demoralised.
According to her she’s now in 3rd set for her science having been top set last year.
It’s made worse by all her close friends being in top set.

I’m more concerned about whether she’s not being supported to fulfil her potential. She came into secondary as a bit of a high flyer and her most recent report still showed target of 7-9 across the board. Last parents evening no concerns were mentioned and I came away thinking she was doing fine altho I know from her she didn’t get great marks in tests (but also didn’t revise).
If it’s her not putting the work in then we want to address that but would have thought something would have been mentioned to us?

It’s also not just science, she has been ‘moved down’ (according to her) in Spanish and English too and English has always been one of her strengths.

Any experience welcome, how should I approach this with school and should I be worried?
Would someone with a 7-9 target normally be in 3rd set?

For context it’s a large state academy, 12 classes per year

Last parents evening no concerns were mentioned and I came away thinking she was doing fine altho I know from her she didn’t get great marks in tests (but also didn’t revise).

Why didn't she revise?

I understand that it's discouraging to be moved down, but if she isn't putting the work in, what did she expect? Maybe the school is trying to give her a bit of a wake up call? I do agree that they should have flagged the fact that she wasn't putting the effort in, but it sounds like you knew that anyway?

I did know that with science, but not with the other subjects.
She definitely could have put more work in but has quite a defeatist attitude to it, as for some in the past she did revise and still didn’t score very high.
But the test marks were known at parents evening (they seem to have a lot of tests and parents are not told of the marks, it’s just whether she tells me or not) and I still got the impression things were hunky dory and she was on track.

If she didn't get great marks in her tests, and other children did better than her, I can see why the teachers have rejigged the sets. The main purpose of sets isn't so everyone knows where they rank, it's so teachers can plan their lessons at the most appropriate level and pace. From the school's point of view, your daughter hasn't done too well in top set, so they're assuming she'll probably do better in set 3- it's not a punishment.

Also according to her her marks weren’t that different compared to others in her set. But who knows maybe they were.

Would it solely be on tests though?
She always does homework and I thought was doing well on that.

My DD has been moved down a set and is upset but that's because she's been lazy with her work and more interested in her social life.

She left it too late to revise at the last minute for end of term tests and realises she needs to work harder to go back up a set.

She more than capable so it's a shame but she's learnt a valuable lesson

It’s a good point and I’ve tried to explain to her she might do better in a different group. But wonder now if it means she may not be entered for triple science and may not achieve her target 7-9?
Doesn’t help I don’t know how many sets there are.

Can’t you email school and ask for a chat about it ? There should be people back in school now.

I don't know. Your best bet would be to ask the school. Is it definitely a lower set and not just a timetabling change?

It sounds like the defeatist attitude needs to be addressed either way. Have a look at the research around growth mindset and see if you can encourage her to look at things differently.

I doubt your DD is being failed academically I'm afraid to say.

She just needs to put the work in or accept it's too challenging for her.

She's only just going into year 9, OP. Plenty of time before GCSEs so don't worry yet about which paper she might do. It will be in the school's interests to get her to achieve her targets as well as hers. Have a chat with them so that you understand why she has been moved, and focus on building back her confidence and work ethics.

I suppose I would have preferred - and think it would have been more effective for her - if there’d been a heads up.
Unfortunately I fear this won’t spur her on but will make her feel like giving up, that seems to be her attitude at the moment

@NautaOcts

I suppose I would have preferred - and think it would have been more effective for her - if there’d been a heads up. Unfortunately I fear this won’t spur her on but will make her feel like giving up, that seems to be her attitude at the moment

It definitely sounds like a mindset issue to me. She presumably did well without too much effort when she was younger, and now that isn't working. That doesn't mean that she isn't capable, it just means that she needs to change her strategy.

Seems unprofessional to move her set and not have this discussion with her.

Hopefully like my DD she'll say she'll try and work harder to go up a set to be back with her friends again.

Wanting to be with their friends is the biggest incentive so hopefully they'll manage it.

I hope so, thank you.
And agree there is a mindset issue.
She was used to things coming easily to her at primary school and it doesn’t seem the case now.

Sorry for slight drip feed but she has had bouts of anxiety and feeling low (peaked in Feb in second lockdown/school closure) and that plus a couple of other things have led me to pursue an asd assessment.
I had thought it wasn’t really affecting her academically and in a way it isn’t too much in that she’s still doing ok, but I guess it is affecting her more than I thought.
It can be very hard to reason with her and at the moment attitude is an issue. She gets upset her friends get higher marks than her but they do put in more work, but she doesn’t want to put in more work, says there’s no point.

Kids will move up and down sets all the time. It's down to their results. If she wants to go back up she needs to try harder

It sounds like you need to speak to the senco too

If it is science are they already looking at who takes Triple and who Double/Combined papers. It might be worth checking if there is still fluidity between sets and criteria. However hopefully she has now learned that she needs to revise and will apply herself.

It also depends on her cohort - if she is in a year with lots of bright children, then this impacts on sets. Set 3 in a 12 form entry is still in the top 25%.

If there are children needing to be in set 1 or 2 because they are working hard and achieving then it would be unfair to deny them the opportunity. You can't control how well other children do in comparison and being a high flyer at primary, by secondary in such a big year, she has more competition.

Hopefully the school can help explain.

Definitely ask to speak to her tutor about it. The school should be happy to talk to you. Explain what you have said here but don't be too free with the info that she didn't revise as much as she should have. Concentrate on her past performance and her desire to stay in the set she was in. She is motivated by her wish to work at the higher level as well as staying with her friends.
If this fails then concentrate on the positives which hopefully her tutor should be able to elucidate for you. The important thing is that your daughter retains her enthusiasm for school.

Should have said "regains her enthusiasm for school" in my post above.
All the best.

You need to work out whether her targets are based on SATS (in which case they will not be adjusted based on how she's actually performing) or bear some resemblance to her actual work. I suspect the former, in which case you may as well ignore them as a useful guide.

Targets are irrelevant for your daughter - ideally she should be achieving to her potential; but at least she needs to be achieving whatever it is to move onto the next stage. If she doesn't want to continue to study science and/or have a career in science then it doesn't particularly matter whether she takes the higher papers and gets 7-9 or not. But Year 9 is too early for that decision to be made anyway (for comparison at my DC's school it's made after November mocks in Y11). If she's a child that doesn't see the point then doing "just enough" might be what she is aiming for. Many children think like this in Year 8 or 9 and then become more focussed when they see GCSEs on the horizon.

I suspect your DD is not telling you her test marks because she knows they are not that great. Sounds like you know she doesn't revise or work as hard as you could. So moving down a set seems like the natural consequence. Not sure how else you would approach it with the school other than by asking what you can do to support. Ultimately it's down to your DD to choose to work.

Yes thanks all, got it all a bit more in perspective today.
She very much has the attitude she’ll put the work in when it comes to her GCSEs but i guess the science thing is a wake up call that it has an effect now.

To be fair to her though she’s had a disrupted year 7 and year 8.

I also take on board that maybe the 7-9 targets were set from SATS automatically. I do wonder though then if a child hypothetically starts heading more towards 5-6s would they pick up on that and try to address it?
It’s hard to know if we made the right schooling choice for her and if things would be different if she was in a smaller environment.

Anyway I have emailed her tutor and a couple of the subject teachers. (And apologised for contacting them in the summer break and said no problem if they don’t come back to me til start of term).

English teacher has come back to confirm she was in a ‘challenge set’ last year but the sets are all mixed ability this year and said how happy she was with her progress in English so that’s reassuring. I had thought it was one of her strong subjects so was a bit confused when she thought she might have been moved down in that.

I also take on board that maybe the 7-9 targets were set from SATS automatically. I do wonder though then if a child hypothetically starts heading more towards 5-6s would they pick up on that and try to address it?

Yes, they will. Schools are measured on whether they meet targets so will put focus on children who are working below them. Although schools only have finite resources, so they may choose to focus on children where they feel it's most needed e.g. they might put a lot of resources into 3/4 borderline children or those who they think only need a small boost to improve their grades dramatically.

The response from English is interesting and I think indicative that children don't know everything that is going on and why they are grouped as they are.