If you chose private over a good or outstanding state school , why was that?

[JuliaBlackberry]

I'm not after a debate on state/private at all as I know the pros and cons and that a good school is dependent on more than just that.
I have moved back recently from abroad with my DC who have mostly been to international school. They are currently y2 and y4 for September. They go to a state primary in a nearby village which they attended for the summer term of last year and I find the school friendly, they seem happy. One DC had an excellent teacher, one not so much. It's Ofsted Good. For secondary we are in the catchment of a comprehensive that gets very good results in the county - it was rated Outstanding in 2017.
I am thinking, however, that I would like to send my DC to an independent high school anyway. I like the smaller classes, the greater extra -curricular opportunities and it's similarities to the international school they've been too. DD the elder child is a competitive swimmer and I know she'd love to swim for her school. I also like the idea that they will have interruption free learning. I'm a teacher and I've taught state, private and international so I have seen the whole spectrum.
But I can't shake the feeling that with an outstanding secondary nearby that I'd potentially be wasting my money. Anyone gone private over outstanding or very good comp?

If you're asking what you should do, I'd look very carefully at the local outstanding school and talk to as many teachers and people that had kids there that you can find. As a teacher you'll know that the Oftsted ratings are often disconnected to reality - sometimes a school rated lower is because of some technical record keeping failing but the teaching and pastoral care is amazing - sometimes the outstanding schools haven't been inspected for a decade or are hotbeds of bullying. You'll also know that some of the claims that independent schools make of small class sizes, nurturing environments and academic excellence can sometimes be marketing speak aka a load of bollocks

On the swimming, the most competitive swimmers of the kids among my friends train with clubs outside of school, unless they're at a proper swimming school which trains for it (eg. Eton is not a competitive swimming school and doesn't have a 50m pool) so it's not a guarantee that independent = competitive swimming for the school and olympic size pools.

If you're asking why we chose independent, it's because in our area the local outstanding schools are hugely oversubscribed and are either grammars where kids are tutored to within an inch of their lives in primary to get in, academies where there seems to be poor governance and we have heard of issues not being dealt with well, and/or schools where there is a 40% uplift in house prices in the catchment. Weirdly the independent sector feels more transparent - fees paid, place purchased. The friends who are going into the state sector talk endlessly about their strategies and machinations and appeals and scrutiny of admissions policies to get into the right schools.

Also, in our area the state schools did literally nothing during lockdowns on the basis that the curriculum was suspended - not even worksheets sent home, which I thought was pretty poor. Whereas our kids' indy prep went straight into full online provision practically from day 1.

Thank you. No I'm not asking what I should do, I have quite a bit of time to think about it and amass information about all the schools including the state comprehensive! Dd does train with an outside club, but I guess what we miss is the inter school galas that she loved at her intl school. I think independents have inter school galas But this alone isn't a reason to choose a private school of course.

Thank you for sharing your reasons, much appreciated

The online provision is also one that has made me think: at the private international school they got send home with a chromebook and an excellent programme of live and pre recorded lessons.
Her bubble closed for a week in the summer term at her state primary and it was next to nothing.

As a parent, you can only do what you think is best for your child. Whichever decision you make, you will always question it, it's only natural. There are kids who thrive in state schools who make private school look like a waste of money, and there are kids who thrive in private schools who would not have done so well in a state school. Do exactly what you are doing, which is look at all your options and be at peace that the choice you make will be the right one for your child.

Can you afford to send them to private school without too much strain on your finances? A good or outstanding comprehensive looks great on paper, but in reality, your child isn't going to get the same attention or education as you would in a private setting.

So I don't think you would be wasting your money if you can afford it comfortably. They get one shot at an education - don't second guess yourself if you're not terribly happy with what you've experienced so far.

@CoolKitkat

Can you afford to send them to private school without too much strain on your finances? A good or outstanding comprehensive looks great on paper, but in reality, your child isn't going to get the same attention or education as you would in a private setting.

So I don't think you would be wasting your money if you can afford it comfortably. They get one shot at an education - don't second guess yourself if you're not terribly happy with what you've experienced so far.

Yes I can afford it. I'm not overjoyed with what I've seen so far but it's not been long I guess. You are right though we only get one chance at an education for them...

We live in the (small) catchment of a very sought after state school. A comprehensive but with well above average academic results: Progress 8 score above +0.8, Attainment 8 score above 62, over 80% of leavers going to universities and the top half of the top set having legitimate Oxbridge aspirations.

We chose to pay for a very sought after private school. Years 7-11 taught in classes of 18 rather than 30. One pastoral form teacher for every 6-7 children rather than 30. Athletic and performing arts facilities in a different league, with playing fields, tennis courts, a 25m swimming pool, and a dedicated theatre all on site. The school is academically selective so academic results are also in a different league, with more than half of the school having legitimate Oxbridge aspirations.

We chose private so our dc could learn in nicer surroundings.

Smaller classes, with less disruptive behaviour in the classes, pupils in setted classes, wider range of extra curricular stuff, longer holidays.
DC have learnt in both state and private schools, and I teach in both sectors too, so I've seen the differences.

Very similar to @11112222 above. To those points, I would add subject choice (particularly better-supported languages depts), more time in the school day for extra curricular activity (long lunch hours) and greater take up of clubs etc among pupils, more flexibility with before and after school provision to fit in with working parents. Greater consistency of teaching (hardly any cover lessons, and, when unavoidable, almost always taught by subject specialists). A generally positive and enthusiastic attitude to school among pupils, with hardly any behaviour problems, which enables very relaxed relationships between students and teachers (in a good way), and pupils allowed considerable independence (no need for convoluted behaviour codes or over-strict uniform rules; pupils trusted and encouraged to manage their own learning, communication with teachers etc). A degree of freedom from government control, school not obliged to bend to all the latest assessment and tracking requirements or short-lived educational theory fads. Sport, music and drama provision offer both excellence and inclusivity - so the standard of the A team (or senior orchestra or whatever) is really high if your child is very good at something, but the teams go all the way down to Z (I exaggerate but not by much!), so your child will still do lots of sport and play lots of matches even if they're not 'sporty' (or will still perform in concerts even if they're not 'musical', etc). Actually, I think the inclusivity side of this is the more important - as people often say, a highly competitive swimmer or cricketer or violinist will probably pursue their interest outside of school, probably to a higher standard, but a kid who isn't highly talented but just wants to get stuck in and participate in lots of extra curricular stuff, can do that more easily when it's all available at school.

We were in your position some years ago now with our eldest and chose the comp after much debate. We wanted a good balanced intake, our children to choose to work rather than by pushed, we wanted them to arrive at Uni knowing how to motivate themselves even against the distraction of the bigger classes you get at Uni and we wanted them to understand all types of children. They have thrived and we are delighted.

The only thing I would have liked is longer school days as I spend hours driving them to extra curricular - the standard of the clubs is high though as for sports they are specialists, so I guess the hours are worth it! And it widens their friendship groups to be doing so much outside of school Would be quite nice for me to have it all in one place - private schools must be like nice ready meals whereas I have to do a lot more cooking - I think the result is just as tasty though.
I have met lots of people like us who were privately educated ourselves who are delighted with the state plus route (state plus lots of outside activities.) So really it is what feels right do you, either option sounds great!

If you are a teacher would you consider getting a job at your targeted private school as a fee reduction of (up to) 80% for teachers children would soften the blow.

My cousin went to a private but expensive school near her house. My aunt and uncle liked it because the number of after school activities and the approach to learning etc. Another reason was that there were fewer mind games played and so on. There was not quite so many assessments either. Not to mention the level of sports, drama and musical activities for the pupils who attended. They wanted a balance essentially. Only drawback were the fees that they expected from parents.

@Sssloou

If you are a teacher would you consider getting a job at your targeted private school as a fee reduction of (up to) 80% for teachers children would soften the blow.

Yes it is a consideration. I work in a state school right now but have worked in a private school before and teachers sent their own children. I worked at the international school my children attended. I guess my knowledge of private schools is what draws me to them, but in the UK I'd have to make a contribution even if I'm working there which for two kids will add up! But yes it's a good idea if I can pull it off - 3 years to find the perfect school before DD starts secondary!

We chose private because Ofsted outstanding doesn’t necessarily mean outstanding, sometimes it doesn’t even mean good.

Our son is in private school (wasn’t in private daycare or kindergarten though).

We find the teaching facilities and resources offered are much better, there is more support offered (chaplaincy, school services, OT, speech therapy etc). The quality of the co-curricular and extra-curricular activities are also more varied and better resourced.

We chose private over an outstanding state school. The state school was relatively new and I felt the rating was down to boxes ticked - understanding the oftsed process rather than actually intrinsically outstanding. Also, for local reasons the school is controversial and my dd was dead set against it.
I opted FOR private because we had done an outstanding state for primary and found that the attention to those capable but not needy was understandably much lower than to those with behavioural or learning difficulties.
We have not regretted our choice. DD loves her school and teachers know her progress on a day to day basis.
The provision from Day 1 of lockdown was outstanding.
The options for additional languages, classics, science, facilities are huge.
The most striking difference is overall attitude to learning - my daughter spent her first term almost freaked out by the quiet in the classroom.
But equally - friends at the local state are very very happy and with a supportive learning environment at home I'd say children are halfway to success whatever the school.

Some of the following:

My child is very interested in some of the areas which the state likes to cut
Being subject to Government whims on education
Sometimes "outstanding" on paper is a tick box exercise- basically they have the paperwork in place
We are in an area where people over push and tutor to get into grammar schools- we decided that this was something we did not want to be part of
Some of the feedback I hear around pastoral care in the outstanding school isn't great

@barristermum
Totally agree with your statement about the home environment being the key. We are coming out the other end with our eldest and we have seen our local friends children go down the outstanding secondary, grammar and private school route, and they are all broadly speaking coming out the same and heading to the exact same good Uni's. You can't tell them apart! They have all had fairly decent teaching, they are all still engaged with a degree of extra curricular, they have all had some minor mental health issues and a heck of a lot of home support, and they are all on a level playing field going forward to the next stage of life. It is really lovely to see.

Worth bearing in mind that if a school gets rated outstanding they don't have to jump through the same hoops at their next OFSTED inspection and can coast. DD was at the local outstanding comprehensive school and it was awful. Really, really awful! It hadn't had a proper OFSTED in years due to its rating. It very much rested on its laurels. There was severe bullying which was never addressed as it was between 'naice' kids. It is situated in a very wealthy area and lots of the pupils come from academic families and by GCSEs the MAJORITY of them were seeing private tutors outside of school - but the school got the credit for the excellent GCSE results. They would also withdraw pupils from subjects if they thought they would do badly in the exams - without consulting parents. Lastly the school had a very nasty habit of allowing / encouraging pupils with issues at home / SEN etc. to drop out and be "home educated", knowing full well that the families of these kids would not be able to support full-time home learning. But then these kids were off their books and they didn't have to include their poor results. The 6th form is highly selective and it was heartbreaking to see kids who'd been there for 5 years, never misbehaved, played for the schools sports teams etc. but "only" got B grades in subjects at GCSE have to move to other 6th forms or the FE college. This meant that a lot of their pupils ended up going to Oxbridge, RG universities but it didn't seem fair. It is a horrible school even if it is, on paper, an outstanding one!

Not really for the academics as we have excellent (though oversubscribed) state schools near us.

For us, it's the sports facilities and number of fixtures (down to E teams for some year groups). For example rugby players have two games sessions and one to two fixtures per week, gym sessions before school and specific team training sessions after school. It adds up to a lot of training per week (and is on top of club/county training). Same for cricket and hockey. Plus international sports tours. If my boys didn't love sport, we might have made a different decision.

The other stuff is pretty good in terms of pastoral care, UCAS support, beautiful grounds, a theatre and lots of extra curricular activities. But I'm sure plenty of state schools offer these too.

We have an 'outstanding' just up the road, but decided to move to go private after lockdown. It was more of a pull factor of the private (very strong ethos which really chimes with us, huge range of extra curricular activities which are very strongly encouraged and smaller class sizes) rather than the push factor of the state that did it. Ended up moving to the junior section of the private after lockdown because of the appalling teaching offered by the also 'outstanding' primary in our village and have been blown away by the consistency of teaching and care during homeschooling periods this academic year. Both 'outstanding' schools had not been assessed for over a decade and were very much trading on their reputations in our view. In any event, we didn't necessarily agree that what made a school 'outstanding' in Ofsted's eyes was the same as what was important to us. Equally, very different ethos amongst the private schools local to us, so that would be a major factor too.

A lot really useful reading here, thanks so much.

I second whoever said don’t judge a book by its cover, ie don’t assume that an “Outstanding” school really is.

Outstanding schools can go for 12 or 13 years without being inspected these days. In that time, everything can change. Results also can be deceptive - some heads are accomplished at managing out pupils or results that they don’t like the look of.

Asking current parents (especially ones with children in the first couple of years) is very risky too. Parents never like admitting they might have made a mistake, especially when they just fought tooth and nail (tutoring, relocating, attending church, appealing) to get their child into a certain school.

I think the best bet is to ask parents of children who’ve recently left the school. You want them recent enough that their knowledge is still up to date, but with no more skin in the game so they will have a bit more perspective on their experience.

I chose private because the so called outstanding school just wasn’t outstanding to me.
Dcs are happier at the independent school. Nit really because of small classes etc… but because basically the level of disruptive behaviours is just not comparable.

FWIW dc2 inst competitive, isn’t in top sets etc.. BUT he finally has been accepted for who he is. A boy that doesn’t like football, talks little and generally doesn’t put himself forward. He is much happier and finally settled

Also a huge difference to me

• when dc2 left the comp, they just had an Ofsted inspection that pulled them up on all the pints I had personally noticed. One of them was the fact some children were basically left out. Vue for his maths teacher apologising (whi hi did appreciate) because they had left dc2 to his own devices, let him ‘coast’ wo giving him more challenging work. Vue for him to have a math level much lower than what he should have had. Because of their teachings.

• arriving at the private school, I had a phone call within two weeks from the school asking how dc2 was because he was so quiet… I reassured them. He was never left unnoticed at the back of the class. He thrived.

The worst situation imo for a child at a state school is to be the quiet child that just get on with stuff. They just get forgotten.