WWYD? Siblings at different schools

[Oneweekleft]

Hi there,

A few years ago DS1 secured a place at a prep school with a large bursary. DS1 is very strong in maths, sporty, competitive and independent minded. He wasn't really bothered about leaving friends as he'll play with anyone. We wanted him at the Prep as we think he's challenged more there and sport was only twice a week at the state school vs every day at the prep. DS1 has settled in well and we will
be aiming for him to get a bursary at 13+. I know they are rare but we feel he will be in with a good chance. We know we are extremely lucky by the way and very grateful for the opportunity.

DS2 is now coming up to the time where we'd have to apply for the Prep if we wanted him to go there. We want to give ds2 the benefit of smaller class sizes, better facilities etc and equal opportunity to his brother but Im worried what will happen at the next stage. DS2 is average across the board academically. He is sporty but that's obviously not enough! DS2 is very happy at his current school with a really close group of friends something DS1 didn't really have. The state is ofsted rated "outstanding" so its not wildly djfferent from the prep but the class sizes are obviously double the size. Now Im in 2 minds about applying for him. I can't see him being granted a bursary at 13 + stage as hes not outstanding in anything. From what I've gathered from reading on here the Prep might grant ds2 a bursary despite average ability due to his brother already being at the school. I feel DS2 would settle at the prep as hes very sociable and makes friends easily and would probably enjoy the facilities but wonder if we are setting him up for a shock of having to transfer back to state school at age 11 and whether it will be worth him going. Obviously our finances could change in the next 5 years but its doubtful that theyd change that radically! So WWYD?

What you can’t do is have your children in 2 different systems. The only time that’s ok is if one has SEN and needs specialist provision. What you’re talking about is having one child in a private selective school and the other is a state school. The brightest child would do well in the state school most likely whereas the less able one may thrive more in the private school.
Regardless, it would be very divisive to have them in different schools - I know from experience as my sister was sent to a weekly selective boarding school as she failed her 11+ and parents didn’t want her going to the local secondary modern. I didn’t get a choice as I passed my 11+ so went to the grammar school. I desperately wanted to go to the same school as my sister. I’ve resented my parents all my life because of this - even though I know they thought they were doing what was best for us both.

Personally I couldn’t have children in different systems. It would have been something I heavily considered prior to DS1 moving to Prep.

We could have just about afforded for DS1 to go private however we choose not to consider it as if we did have a second child we couldn’t afford to privately educate two children.

I have a friend who has a big age gap in her children. She sent her first private at 11 after not getting into the Secondary they wanted. They sold a rented house and paid the fees in a lump sum. She then unexpectedly had a second child. DC2 started in the attached prep with the intention of moving them to state in Yr2/3 when DC2 finished secondary. Each year they put it off, saying next year then at Secondary etc because it never felt right to remove that privilege that they had become used to and that DC1 had received.

@soontobe60 Thanks for sharing. I can see why you might have resented your parents. Were you unhappy at the grammar?

I disagree that having them in different systems would be unfair. Treating your children fairly does not mean treating them exactly the same.

Private was an option for your older son because of the bursary, and you decided it was the best option for him.

You need to look at the available options for your younger son and decide what is best for him. If private isn't an available option because of funding, then you consider the other options.

I had DC in different systems and it was fine. However, I do think the order in which it happens might matter. Both mine went to the local primary but then my elder (bright) went through the state system -comprehensive- and the younger (average) went to an independent.

I'm going to post the opposite, my siblings and I went to different schools for academic reasons and it was exactly the right thing for us. As adults we'll all done well in life and are happy with where we went to school

That said it no one else is you and your children and it would be wrong of you to decide based on what others say when you know best how your children will be affected

Money and practicalities weren't an issue in my family, they might be in others where you can't get the children to different schools.

@Soontobe60

What you can’t do is have your children in 2 different systems. The only time that’s ok is if one has SEN and needs specialist provision. What you’re talking about is having one child in a private selective school and the other is a state school. The brightest child would do well in the state school most likely whereas the less able one may thrive more in the private school. Regardless, it would be very divisive to have them in different schools - I know from experience as my sister was sent to a weekly selective boarding school as she failed her 11+ and parents didn’t want her going to the local secondary modern. I didn’t get a choice as I passed my 11+ so went to the grammar school. I desperately wanted to go to the same school as my sister. I’ve resented my parents all my life because of this - even though I know they thought they were doing what was best for us both.

Why can't she?

Personally I would speak with both children.

Just because prep does more sport and has smaller classes doesn't mean that any of the children want to go there. Son 1 might love it or might hate it.

Ask them, let them pick where they prefer, of one chooses prep and the other chooses state, then so be it.

Their happiness will play a key part in how much they will achieve at school

It feels the wrong way round to me. The child that isn't as academic possibly needs the benefits of smaller class sizes more than his sibling? The bursary option may not be available for both but if it was me I wouldn't have sent one and not the other as I think it sends the message that one is better than the other.

I'm not sure DS1 would have done well at the state simply because they couldn't tailor the work to his level and he's the kind of boy that acts silly if he's bored. I was worried that if he continued to be unchallenged he'd become rebellious as he's the kind of kid who pushes the boundaries. DS2 is finding the work at the right level and is coming home satisfied. So there is a difference. So far DS2 never asked to go to his brothers school and he has actually said he doesnt want to go there as hes so happy where he is. This is the dilemma I risk disrupting his hapiness and putting him into a new school which is too pushy for him. Im wondering whether to put him in for the assesment anyway and see if he's offered a place and get some feedback first before making a decision.

Oh gosh that's a dilemma I wouldn't want to have. I would either have both at the prep school or both at the state school, but if neither were a good fit or not possible I'd move to a different area rather than have one in, one out of the private school system.

I'm not sure DS1 would have done well at the state simply because they couldn't tailor the work to his level

Why couldn’t they? This is what teachers always do.

I was the one who was more academic and got a scholarship whilst my younger sister stayed in state. It was absolutely the right choice for us both, and if my parents hadn't let me take up the place (they could never have afforded to send two, all my fees were paid) I would never have forgiven them.

My sister was also much more sociable and has a great set of friends from her (brilliant) school to this day. I think you are being really sensible to match the child to the setting rather than take the approach that they both have to be in the same system. I have some in state and some private, also work in education, and also don't accept that the teaching is state is worse.

If DS2 is happy at his outstanding state, with good friends, then he will thrive.

If both sons are happy, don't change anything. Maybe have regular grown-up chats though to check that they are both still happy with the situation. Resentment can build up over time and might not surface until they're older. However, if you involve them in the decision making, they will have more agency.

The state is ofsted rated "outstanding" so its not wildly different from the prep

This is a very misguided statement. I know a lot of "Outstanding" state schools though my own kids as well as my line of work - and in many cases I really struggle to know what exactly is outstanding about them. For instance, the idea that DD's school is really outstanding in what it does, despite its long-held label such, is honestly quite laughable. It might be better than your average state school but still suffers from problematic finances, lack of resources, issues with the appointment and keeping of teachers, piecemeal administration, lack of extra-curricular stimulation. Headmaster runs a reasonably tight ship with the money and staff he's got - but I'd be expecting a LOT more if I were paying for it.

Hmm this one is tricky. I do think you need to treat your children equally well but that doing the best for each child doesn't always mean doing the same for each child.

But as your DS2 doesn't have a place yet I am not sure you really have a dilemma yet. I would say to him, "DS1 goes to XY prep because he has a bursary. We are going to apply for you too but we will need a second bursary for you to go. The school doesn't always have bursaries available so we don't know if there will be another one. If there is no bursary, you will stay at your school with your friends. If there is a bursary, we can choose which school we all like more."

Or if you don't feel the need to tell him yet, just apply quietly and keep your options open. I would say you don't really have a decision to make until you are holding an offer for DS2 with an appropriate bursary attached.

It may be that when he is older he realises doesn't want to stay on to the end of year 8 and you all decide starting a state secondary at year 7 is best. Alternatively, the prep might give him a bit of polish as an "all rounder" and he might stand a chance at a bursary at year 9. A good prep head will be able to steer you one way or another by the start of year 6, but of course watch out that they don't string you along for 2 more years of fees (less likely if your son has a bursary and they are carefully curating a leavers' destinations list of course). Also keep your eye out for bursaries to schools starting at year 7 if you go that route - traditional preps that go to year 8 naturally don't focus to much on year 7 entry points to senior schools and a number of very good but less academic schools start at 11 these days for boys and sometimes have good bursaries at year 7. This is often because it is harder to get junior boarders than year 9 or sixth form, assuming you are considering boarding at senior.

In a way I think it will be easier because it is the school saying yes/no instead of you, and your children are not the same age. I knew a family whose twins applied to their local indy for year 7 and only one got a place... very difficult decisions there. As your kids are different ages it is easier to say, "oh, luck of the draw" or "shame that it got some much more competitive this year" or what have you.

I agree with others that independent isnt necesarily better. Im just trying to work out the right route for ds2. For some context our area is one people move to for outstanding state schools. So if ds2 was to stay in his current school he could get a place at an outstanding secondary too. Our neighbours daughter has been through the state system and has been offered a place at Cambridge.
The fact is DS1 is the kind of child who actually might be able to get a bursary at secondary level but DS2 probably won't. This is now concerning me as DS2 could get a place in the prep school but then what will happen at 11+ ? I think the Prep will actually say this to me. To be perfectly honest when i was searching for DS1 i wasnt even aware of how the system worked it wasn't until the tour round of the school when the Head asked me whats the plan for 13+ it occurred to me the system is completely different. Maybe naive of me but I had DS1 at 25 and ive been state educated myself and its like a whole new world. I've been reading up on this board as much as I can to understand it all.

OP where do children from the prep go at year 9?

well my grandparents did this 60 years ago. One private one state grammar. Worst decision they ever made those girls still hate each other all these years later and this comes up at every family wedding/ funeral etc. Both resent the other.
Send to same school may not show when they are still children but boy does resentment simmer over the years.
You must give children equal opportunity s in life.

@lemonsyellow

I'm not sure DS1 would have done well at the state simply because they couldn't tailor the work to his level

Why couldn’t they? This is what teachers always do.

I disagree, it might be what teachers want to do but often doesn’t happen that well in state schools. Especially if children are floating along doing ok.

@Oneweekleft

I agree with others that independent isnt necesarily better. Im just trying to work out the right route for ds2. For some context our area is one people move to for outstanding state schools. So if ds2 was to stay in his current school he could get a place at an outstanding secondary too. Our neighbours daughter has been through the state system and has been offered a place at Cambridge. The fact is DS1 is the kind of child who actually might be able to get a bursary at secondary level but DS2 probably won't. This is now concerning me as DS2 could get a place in the prep school but then what will happen at 11+ ? I think the Prep will actually say this to me. To be perfectly honest when i was searching for DS1 i wasnt even aware of how the system worked it wasn't until the tour round of the school when the Head asked me whats the plan for 13+ it occurred to me the system is completely different. Maybe naive of me but I had DS1 at 25 and ive been state educated myself and its like a whole new world. I've been reading up on this board as much as I can to understand it all.

If you can truly 100% say that you believe DS2 would be happier in state school, then go with it but be honest with yourself if money was no issue would you still think this? Is there another private that would suit DS2 better then the very academic option?

I have 2 dc in different secondaries. We looked round schools and chose based on what suited each best. Next year I’ll do the same with dc3, and the year after with dc4.
Dc1 didn’t get into the local selective. Dc2 chose not to try as she didn’t like it. Dc3 may well get in if he wants to try but that’s not decided.
Different schools suit different dc. Dc1 needed more boundaries, dc2 wanted smaller class and school size and dc3 may need more challenges. We chose according to best fit to the individual rather than send them all to dc1’s choice. Fair treatment doesn’t mean treating them the same.

You need to treat your children fairly, but this doesn’t mean treat them the same.

Of course you can have children in diffeGive both children whatever is best for them

Can you supplement DS2 with 121 tutoring instead?

If he prefers the environment of his current school, perhaps he would benefit more on the academic side by getting some extra help that way.

I think the two different systems is ok, but you need to show DS2 that you are as committed to his schooling as his brother so extra tutoring or supplementary lessons in other topics is one way to do that.

I have to 100% agree with @CakesOfVersailles

Infact, I would say go read what she has written again.

I also wanted to point out that getting a bursary at prep is very rare, simply because the pot is much, much smaller. Truth is, if he gets a bursary at prep, he most likely stands a good chance of one at senior school.

If your DS2 gets into the prep with bursary, most likely the HM will guide him for a suitable school and as pp said, develop his 'all rounder' persona.

You may have to separate them at senior school, with your DS1 going to the more academically selective, and your DS2 to less academic, but that does not mean he would not get a bursary. It also depends how far your net goes, are you open to boarding at that age? If not, you would have to consider 11+ stage and truthfully, unless you are in London, I can see your concern that DS does not get bursary. If you are considering boarding, then DS2 may well get a bursary at a less academic school.

My own DS are going to attend different schools to match their personalities.

Good luck