Did using state schools over private make a difference in your experience?

[Bulblasagnes]

If you chose to use the state sector when you could afford private, for altruistic or idealistic reasons of wanting to participate in the state sector and support the betterment of the state sector for the benefit of everyone, do you think it actually made a difference to other children at your child’s school? Or to the school?

I have always planned on sending my DC to state schools all the way through. I am confident that with our support they would be fine academically and go onto achieve whatever they wanted. DH and I attended top universities and are both in highly skilled professional jobs. To our surprise after a few sharp pay rises we will be in a position to easily afford private secondary when the time comes. In addition, there is an all-round fantastic private school locally (a boys’ school, for DS, the oldest) which has brilliant facilities and teaching in sports, music, drama and so on, in addition to great academics.

Between the two options we have, I still don’t think it will necessarily affect university options, but I do think DS could have a lot of fun and pursue many activities to a high level at the private school, which he wouldn’t be able to at the state. I also think the private school would help with DS’s confidence issues.

My heart is still with the state school option but I want to be sure that depriving my DC of those experiences and possibilities at private school will really make a difference to others. Otherwise it just feels like I’m making them miss out for no reason.

In many cases of school choice, there are going to be compromises - things where one school has the edge over another, and vice versa. So, things like location, clubs, subject choices are always going to come into play, but when you're looking at state/private then there might be ideological and affordability considerations as well. It's hard for anyone to really advise you, because all these considerations are so personal. For us, for example, the biggest single factor that inched us into independent was SS vs coed, as we really wanted coed and our best state options by miles were SS. Our other good state option was a church school, and we didn't want that either. So, we weighed up the ideological advantage (in our opinion) of coed/secular against the ideological reservation (for us) of private, and in the end came down in favour of the private school (of course, all the other practical factors came into play too, but the ideological factors were quite important). But that was a very personal choice for us.

Another tip someone gave me, on the more practical side, is to ask yourself whether you would take the private place if your child got given a (mythical) guaranteed 100% non-means-tested scholarship. If your answer to that is 'of course' (which it would be for lots of people though of course not all), then it's not really a question of whether or not you would prefer to send your child to the private school - it just comes down to a 'how much is that preference financially worth to you' equation.

Really interesting about the US.

We do have good options for younger DD but not quite as nearby so she may have to travel a little to get a similar education, which isn’t ideal (we’re talking approx. 45 min trip which sounds ok to me).

I can only speak of my experience in another country and I would say it definitely makes a difference, I was privately educated and have chosen to do the same for my DC's. I found this article however that raises some good points for and against and I'm sure the principles are transferable to the Uk.

Would help if I provided the link www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/aug/18/bespoke-education-are-australias-private-schools-worth-the-price-tag

The point is imo that as parents you do what seems best at the time for your DC. They are individuals and schools, private and state, vary enormously. You need to look at your options and choose the best fit for the child and your circumstances.

I chose state schools over private, because I thought it would benefit my children for multiple reasons. Not because I saw this as some kind of 'contribution to society'. What a weird sense of self, where you think you or your children are a 'gift' to a state school.

An important factor was how disgusted I am by the public figures and elite coming out of the British private system. Not something I want for my own family. They are 14 and 16. The eldest just got a scholarship to go to a very prestigious and private boarding school elsewhere. It would have not been my choice but she has made her own mind and she has obviously made the most from what the comp (not selective school either) had to offer.

Before she ended year 10 she was grade 8 distinction in violin too (a lot supported by the state school, including preparing for grade 5 theory exam). She is black belt on a particular martial art and decent level of Chinese after being fully immersed in the Mandarin Excellence Programme offered for free at the school too.

Genuine question camaleon was the fact that the State option seems to have been excellent also a factor in your decision?
So many people on here (not you) attack Private schools and then somewhere in their post will be the fact that their DC went to a good/excellent State school.
How many people would honestly send their dc to a terrible State school where even teachers advise you not to send your child when you can easily afford a Private school practically on your doorstep?
I won’t throw my kids under the bus to avoid claims of segregation or elitism or to boost the (frankly bloody awful) performance stats of any school.

What a weird sense of self, where you think you or your children are a 'gift' to a state school
I agree with this, and also the idea that state schools would improve if children now at private schools were to go to them.
So patronising - are these private school parents so superior that they can improve state schools whereas the state school parents are a bunch of lazy incompetents who couldn’t care less about their children’s schools?

However, you say your daughter is going to a prestigious boarding school against your better judgement. Since you so despise the products of private schools, are you not concerned about the consequences for your daughter?

My last post was to camaleon

Andante - to be fair, when I decided to send dd1 to private school instead of the state school, this is exactly the repost I got back from other parents/teachers - that my DD’s presence at state school (as well as a few other bright students also shipping out) would be better for the environment at the state school, so it’s not really a weird sense of self. It is actually used by many people as an example of why private schools shouldn’t exist.

We sent two to private school and one state (at secondary).
We did that because the one who went to state was involved in a football academy at an early age and the state hours were shorter, homework less etc
The truth is the state school, although outstanding by OFSTED’s measures was not a patch on the private schools. Resources etc were thin on the ground, classes bigger, teachers stressed to high heavens. But it worked out for the child in question, because he was able to attend the academy.

@Andante57 It does worry me Andante. But she is 16; she got herself a scholarship although I still have to pay quite a bit for this. She wants a different environment. She is making her own decisions now. I am very proud of her and how she thought this through.

I made my decisions according to what I thought was best for my kids and now she is making hers.

She has been exposed to a great range of experiences and wonderful teachers in the comprehensive school she and her brother attended (I was less impressed by the primary school provisions in our case).

The brother also wants to move to selective education for A Levels (Latimer or King's Maths School in London). I will support him the best I know to make it. I would prefer if he stayed where he is, because I believe being exposed to a range of learning abilities and backgrounds is a much richer experience than narrowing yourself down to a cohort of people who have all passed the same exam or who have big pockets.

What I don't believe is that potentially privately educated children are good for state school per se.

My feeling is that people with money are normally more entitled and tend to demand more than those who feel more vulnerable. Putting pressure on school does not guarantee better results though.

I send my DC to state comprehensive schools for ideological reasons although I could probably afford private (haven't checked for sure but most of my colleagues kids go private)

I don't see me and my kids as a gift to the state sector. I just want them to have a normal life interacting with a proper cross section of society and not a middle class academic hot housing kind of experience.
I guess I do think that by us choosing to go there we are being a part of our local community which is an important thing to me. DH and I volunteer our skills at their schools whenever there's an opportunity but I don't send them mainly for others benefit. I do it because I think it's the right thing for them as well.

I don't think they miss out educationally but the range of after school, extra curricular stuff is definitely less. I am unbothered about that because community sports, music and arts clubs exist and I bus them about to those if they are interested.

I just can't see me and my kids fitting in with the kinds of very ambitious driven people at a lot of the local private schools. I can't imagine putting them through exams and competitive interviews at a very young age, employing tutors and in general angsting so much over the whole thing. I don't think children should be subjected to that. Learning is supposed to be fun and I prefer places that keep it that way. I can't see the point in being drilled beyond your natural abilities to achieve a result in an exam. That's not the be all and end all of life.

I believe, as is borne out by educational research, that most of your child's achievement is due to your input as a parent from a very young age and that I input as much into their education by reading with them, discussing interesting topics, taking them to theatres and art galleries and historical places and all that as I would have done by coughing up private school fees. They both have lovely friends and are very happy (teens now) and so far I have no regrets about our decision

I can honestly hand on heart say I wouldn't take a 100% scholarship for them to go private either.

I think the local state comp they go to is fine but honestly I don't really know because I'm not a teacher. What they learn and talk to me about seems like what I'd expect. People are not getting knifed there on a daily basis but a few years ago there was an incident that made the local papers. It's not a grammar or anything exceptional certainly.

The only thing that would change my mind is if they were unhappy themselves. If they were being bullied or were unsafe then obviously I would use my financial resources to save them from that. I am not going to sacrifice my kids to ideology. I just really do believe that the decision to have a 'normal' school experience is best for them and it's what they want too.

Ironically, @CovoidOfAllHumanity, the 'learning is supposed to be fun' thing is one of the reasons we went private. Our grammar alternative gets excellent results, but also has a reputation for being an academic hothouse - frequent assessment, narrow focus on the exam curriculum, and lots of homework. Our secondary modern alternatives are OK, but probably not the happiest fit for a naturally academic child whose idea of a good day at school is double Latin and a maths quiz, because the most academic kids tend to go the grammars, and the subject choice is fairly limited (eg no further maths or MFL at A level). At the independent I feel like we get the best of both worlds - lessons are fun and inspiring because the kids are all at a broadly similar level and enjoy challenging each other, the teaching is consistently very good, there are barely any behaviour problems, there's time and space to go off-curriculum when they fancy it, and the relationship with the teachers is almost more akin to a university tutor/student relationship (because the classes are a bit smaller and there's no disruptive behaviour to manage). And because of greater resource, and facilities, and time in the school day, there's still plenty of opportunity for sport and music and drama and other clubs. School is precisely what you said - fun. But I totally understand the ideological reservations, and I realise we're very lucky to be able to make this choice.

@Hoppinggreen

Genuine question camaleon was the fact that the State option seems to have been excellent also a factor in your decision? So many people on here (not you) attack Private schools and then somewhere in their post will be the fact that their DC went to a good/excellent State school. How many people would honestly send their dc to a terrible State school where even teachers advise you not to send your child when you can easily afford a Private school practically on your doorstep? I won’t throw my kids under the bus to avoid claims of segregation or elitism or to boost the (frankly bloody awful) performance stats of any school.

I was in the very privileged position to be able to pay for private when the decisions were made. My kids have been very academic too so selective school was a clear option to try at least.

Of course, if I have found myself with the option of a terrible State school I would have tried everything to get them out of there. I have already said that I decided according to what I believed was best for them

I am surrounded by privately educated people and I look at what the elite of this country does and I cannot say I have been impressed by the outputs of the private schools they attended. This is my own experience and prejudices. There are also a strong set of principles and values that have informed these decisions, in addition to my personal background.

I can totally get why someone goes to private education; I have no doubts you get 'more'. If people pay is because they get a 'product' those who don't pay don't get. Not everything can be bought with money. Immersing your kids in the circle where only a tiny minority of people live, is not my first choice.

I wish other people had more choices too, so if a particular school did not suit their kids they could try elsewhere.

@PresentingPercy Of course! I found everybody's descriptions of schools in the UK fascinating, too.

Something I just realized I didn't mention (perks of typing long posts late at night!) was that sometimes even privs might not offer better internship opportunities if you have a wealthy public option.

Re some points in this post:

If a child is gifted in whatever subject, it will be a gift to the cohort, regardless it's a state or independent school. The gifted child will bring in The natural competitiveness amongst the children, which will help the whole cohort to achieve more.

We don't observe counter factual, but with smaller classes, children get more opportunities to perform in front of the whole school hence boosting their confidence. For example, Dd school organised three music events and the sessions are 30 minutes each. 45 children from the whole school are selected to play instruments. Given it is a small prep, dd has a fair chance to be selected. Dd is very shy but I think having been able to perform solo helped her to come out her shell. Confidence and resilience are important. Children can get from state school doesn't mean they can't get it from private schools.

When we choose schools, we want the best of DD, enjoying the education and looking forward to going to school are the priorities. We never thought how much return we would get.

I have met someone telling me they are against private schools. I am surprised that they still pay a big house premium and try to squeeze in good state schools.

Biased perceptions: a private school offering swimming contests, individual support, musical lessons, differentiated work, sports coaching will be known as hot housed etc. It will be highly praised if all these are offered in a state school.

I echo posters that place emphasis on the actual secondary state options available.

I went to a mediocre London comp. I wish the secondary schools around here were even at that level. Because of the local context we find ourselves in, DC will go private or grammar for secondary (state primaries are great though!).

Then there is the issue of the child and the parent(s). Many parents here are already doing well for their children because they are invested in their DC's education journey. Ive two nephews who are the same age. For secondary school, one went private, the other went to a mediocre (although little rough around the edges) state comp. Both are now at top selective state sixth forms. The one who went private is confident and doesn't place limits on himself (he is at a particularly well known sixth form). He dreams BIG! My nephew who went to the state comp has low confidence and needed a lot of encouragement to consider his very sought after and high achieving sixth form in a leafy area of North London.

I'm sure both will go to similar ranking universities, but the one who went private has a parent who will always ensure their child is supported and aims high. My other nephew's parent has a 'let them do what they want'/ 'hands off' attitude which doesn't help this particular child. He's more likely to opt for the easy path unless he's encouraged/thinks he's good enough. If myself and a family friend didn't intervene, my nephew would have ended up at his comp's uninspiring, low achieving sixth form (his teachers were pushing him to stay, which is lovely but no thanks). He is a hard worker, and gets top grades, but the life/career guidance was missing. He's extremely happy in this newer, more encouraging/academic setting. Both are now being prepped for uni applications at their sixth forms, but the one who went private doesn't really want to go to Oxbridge. He says it's not as appealing to him over Imperial/UCL (lure of the big city after country living I think ). My other nephew is excited about potentially heading to Cambridge. His parents are proud of course (and have started getting involved now), but I wonder if they will now have a different attitude with their younger kids (still in primary).

I just want my kids to be happy, confident and driven. If I moved to a better area, I would definitely consider state.

I think increasingly I just question what is it all for?

When COVID meant exams were cancelled I thought to myself: Why do we actually get so wound up about exams anyway? I think it was an Oxford college that just immediately said they'd honour all their offers anyway and it made me think that Oxbridge pretty much usually do that anyway. They offer on interview much more than on predicted grades. I missed one of the As I was suppose to get for medicine at Cambridge and they let me in anyway because they had already decided I was good enough from what they saw.

I can't get worked up about one grade here or there or even if one of my children is 'underachieving' as long as they are happy with their lives.

I don't need them to be in a class with other high achievers just so they can get one grade more than they would have done. I think it's more of a benefit to them to be educated in the real world with a range of people around them.

I’ve worked for a family (land gentry billionaires) who sent their children to the local state primary school and a local public day school for secondary. As billionaires go, they are very kind people.

IME most people (at least on MN) believe that what they are doing is right.

So you won't get a definitive answer here!

Go with your gut.

@MadKittenWoman

DS went to our local outstanding state school, unlike most of his friends who went private. He is on for a first in a RG university, while most of his ex-classmates either dropped out as they couldn't cope with different environments and different types of people, went to a less-prestigious university or are in low-paid jobs. It very much depends on the young person involved.

Do you mean his ex-classmates from the outstanding school "dropped out as they couldn't cope with different environments and different types of people..."?

I agree CovoidOfAllHumanity. As far as I can tell, it's parental aspiration and education that determines academic outcomes more than schooling. I think PPs are right about the confidence that private schools instil, but having worked around plenty of public schoolboys in my time, that's something I personally would certainly wish to avoid in my own family.

I went to university in the early 90's - no fees paid, a fairly chilled experince, great tuition in a well-respected institution. I was lazy and took no advantage of anything on offer, drifted out with a 2ii then had to make my own way in the world. God knows what would have happened if I'd been saddled by £30k+ of debt. Is it even worth it? Serious question. If my kids don't want to bother with uni I'd be happy with that. I don't believe that the sort of career you pick up on RG milk round would be any more satisfying than running a kayaking tour company in West Wales for example. Why spend 3 years paying to jump through hoops just to get a job that will make you miserable?

I once had a conversation with a dear friend whose children were just a year or two older than mine. She was super-rich, a 1%er, and had the difficult choice of choosing schools for them. She looked at Harrow and hated it, she looked at various London preps and was agonising over the right fit for her sons. "You want the best for them, don't you?" she said. I didn't say so, but I thought "I don't". I don't want them to have the best of anything - not the best clothes, or house, or schools or anything. Good enough would be good enough. My aspirations were so different to hers - I just wanted my kids to be happy and self sufficient. Still do.

Sorry, I digress. I think the old horses for courses cliche is true here OP. Only you know your children and their personalities. Only you know the schools on offer nearby. Only you know what aspirations you have for your children. You need to do some serious soul searching then just pick your best bet and hope for the best. Remember: the decision you make is not final. If your child is unhappy and the school is not a good fit, you can always change your mind.

I do think it's an issue for certain careers

All these public school educated Drs and honestly it is embarrassing how some are utterly unable to relate whatsoever to the life of a person struggling on benefits.

I am from a middle class household but at least not every single person I knew growing up was exactly the same as me. I went to uni with some people so posh they'd never been on a bus or put their own washing on.