Would you bother putting an average child in for the 11+

[Coppercreek]

Evening all, some friends chat about school allocations has turned me to thinking about secondary school for DD who is in year 4.

Our catchment high school is pretty dire. I had never thought much about the 11+ but am now wondering if it is worth putting DD in for it in the hope of getting a place at one fo the 2 lovely grammars nearby.

She is above average in maths but struggles with word questions and she is dyslexic so struggles with English however she has excellent understanding once a question is read to her (which is what happens at school). She is mildly dyslexic and although not at free reading level she is nearly there.

Am I going to cause her unnecessary stress and disappointment by aiming her at something she won't be able to do?

She gets pupil premium so she can score 10 points below the qualifying score and get a place. And we are in the priority catchment area.

I worry about her at either of our 2 catchment comps. Both have huge behaviour issues and lower than average GCSE and A level scores.

She had a tutor at the moment to help with her literacy skills as with us both working full time we don't have the time to help her with her homeschooling as much as we would like and if we were going to put her in for it we would continue with the tutoring.

Speaking to friends who have got their kids into the grammar we do need to start thinking about it by September as most of the kids seem to have some sort of prep for it.

Also can I point out that it’s not just about passing the test. In our area all those who pass are then ranked and then the top 250 or so are given places. So if you have 4-5 children taking the test per place they will need to pass with a good score.

@whataboutbob

Having been through the Surrey grammar application with DS2 I agree with steppemum. Despite what previous posters have said, my belief is grammar school entrance is not about being well off and affording tutors. My observation of the parents at DSs grammar is they are mostly not particularly well off, but they are clued up and educationally ambitious for their kids. In this area at least, topics which are not covered in year 6 will be on the exam paper for maths. Tutoring/ preparing is vital as no matter how bright the kid, if they are faced with a task they’ve never seen before they won’t be able to do it. Parents can prepare their kids ( I did) but, especially if they are not teachers themselves, will have to spend hours understanding what the requirements of the test are and getting hold of preparation materials. The unfairness does not lie with economics, but with the disparity in parental motivation and the hoarding of knowledge by parents who are in the loop (tutor contacts, insights into exam content etc).

*The unfairness does not lie with economics, but with the disparity in parental motivation and the hoarding of knowledge by parents who are in the loop (tutor contacts, insights into exam content etc*

As the vast majority of parents do have their children tutored, they are never going to say, yes it’s likely my child wouldn’t have passed without it. So it will always be ‘justified’.

The unfairness is, in this case, it’s not necessarily the natural innate ability but more practice practice practice, over and above a child from a deprived background, where the parents simply can not access private tuition. It certainly is not a level playing field.

They should make it more like IQ testing, so they can’t practice in the same way. Then it would be based on the child’s actual potential as oppose to being hot housed to remember everything

Table - the unfairness extends further than just being able to afford tuition. A motivated but deprived family could help their child with reading / tables / cgp books. In my area primary schools never mention the 11+, it’s like a weird taboo. They don’t even say a private well done to the kids that pass. They don’t pass on the info about how to register for, which has to be done in yr 5 on an insanely badly designed and complicated website. Many parents simply don’t think about it till too late, if ever. It really annoys me that even though it is the system for our county they aren’t allowed to talk about the 11+ which means that only those with ‘pushy’ parents are likely to access it. Bright kids with parents that aren’t interested won’t even get to sit the test. If they don’t know anyone else who’s done it that can be a barrier. At the test there’s no easy parking so you really need two adults to take the child, one on the car and one with child - so that’s a barrier to single parents or those without a car.

@Sittinbythetree

Table - the unfairness extends further than just being able to afford tuition. A motivated but deprived family could help their child with reading / tables / cgp books. In my area primary schools never mention the 11+, it’s like a weird taboo. They don’t even say a private well done to the kids that pass. They don’t pass on the info about how to register for, which has to be done in yr 5 on an insanely badly designed and complicated website. Many parents simply don’t think about it till too late, if ever. It really annoys me that even though it is the system for our county they aren’t allowed to talk about the 11+ which means that only those with ‘pushy’ parents are likely to access it. Bright kids with parents that aren’t interested won’t even get to sit the test. If they don’t know anyone else who’s done it that can be a barrier. At the test there’s no easy parking so you really need two adults to take the child, one on the car and one with child - so that’s a barrier to single parents or those without a car.

I agree with much of what you say. If primary schools covered everything and encouraged the brightest children, then perhaps there wouldn’t be so much focus on having to go to private tutors and it would a fairer process for all.

Don’t get me wrong, I completely understand why people would tutor, because everyone else does, so your would be foolish not to really.

I also think there is a world of difference to having maybe 10 sessions with a private tutor, to cover the basics and prepare the child or giving them past papers for a few weeks for familiarity.

I don’t think that’s the same as hot housing them for 2 years with tuition and extra work through the duration. That’s when it’s it’s OTT and I wonder if the child would have passed without all the extra input.

@Sittinbythetree I agree. It does seem taboo to mention the 11 plus in primary, maybe a lot of the teachers have ideological objections, or they just have enough on their plate with the pressures to level up the struggling kids before secondary, to think about nurturing the more able kids. There is also the problem of families who have not experienced higher education , and by this I largely mean white working class families, not having the insights, connections etc to negotiate the whole 11 plus thing. So yes a raw IQ test might be fairer but there too I’m sure you could prep your kid to an extent.
@TableFlowerss I agree there’s probably a subset of kids in grammar schools who wouldn’t have got in without extensive tutoring / going to one of the prep schools that boast of their high success rate with kids getting into super selectives. The process is everything except fair.