Chinese Ownership of 17 private schools in Uk

[dipdips]

I know this was in the Daily Fail but is there any truth in it? Are these schools really spreading propaganda or is this a bit of sensationalism? Anyone have a child at these schools and can refute this, they don’t seem to have asked parents their opinions!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9282617/British-private-institutions-bought-Chinese-firms.html

I am merely putting across the point that there still seems to be a hangover from colonialism whereby some people seem to think an action is fine for them but not for others

But it’s not the same thing at all, for reasons we’ve already gone over. Branches of Harrow/Dulwich have popped up all over China, but parents know what they’re getting. It’s completely different.

The Daily Nazi are always playing this game

I wish people argued on the merits of the article, not the source 🙄 What do Nazis have anything to do with the DM? Did a literal Nazi write this article? Did they talk about the Jewish question? Was it advocating for more ‘living space?’ Am I, a frequent reader of the DM, now part of the Nazi party?

I’d be a little more careful throwing around extremely inflammatory labels like that if I were you. It’s just a bit conservative and sensationalist, hardly the mouthpiece of Sauron.

Again, fine for you. But ask yourself why other news media won’t touch certain topics? If we are concerned about immigration issues or trans issues, and the DM is the only one willing to cover it, that essentially means you won’t be a part of the conversation.

You know that other news media certainly do write about and report on those issues; what you mean is that the DM agenda on those issues happens to accord with yours. However, the reality is that their stance on trans rights has absolutely nothing to do with feminism, and everything to do with their overall intolerance of anything they view as deviant or lefty, and that they bracket the issue with homosexuality, albeit they are not as overt in relation to the latter. Supporting an intolerant, bigoted, lying paper because its intolerance on one issue happens to accord with your views really devalues any argument.

@TheSockMonster That is fascinating that you think maybe the influence actually goes the other way and the children become more Westernised. Although anecdotaly my niece found at her boarding school the Chinese children kept to themselves in a group, which she found really sad as she really liked them and wanted to be more involved. She left in the end for another school which didn't seem so segregated as she found it just too strange at the one school.

It's not just schools. Check power, property.

Farage is desperate for another cause that (a) keeps him in the papers and (b) diverts attention from the Brexit shitshow. He's also smarting from no longer being able to bask in what he perceives as the glory of being matey with Trump and the fact that Trump made such an almighty-balls-up of, well, everything. We're going to see more of these desperate attempts at blaming dreadful forrins for everything from both Farage and the Mail. Best to ignore them, really.

@dipdips

I think there will be a mixture of outcomes depending on the school.

The limited number of big brand names like Eton, Winchester, Rugby, Marlborough etc will always be British institutions with some but limited overs students simply because they can easily afford to run it that way.

The lesser known schools have it tougher as fees have gone up way above inflation. 40 years ago private school fees were within the means of professional UK middle class - accountants, doctors etc but not now. Also a large number of some ch schools have been incredibly badly run - eg let's invest in a state of the art theatre or swimming pool rather than the actual teachers because hey we can simply increase the fees to those "rich" parents or get some more overseas pupils in.

Some will sell out to foreign investors and basically become international schools but with a British private school badge on the gate. Which reminds me a lot of Rover cars which are Chinese made with a British badge on the front.

The approach that most interests me is that taken by the Wishford Trust. They are a UK investment fund that basically buys struggling UK private schools then invests in very high quality teaching staff (rather than a fancy theatre) at the same time as keeping fees "more affordable" to British families. Whilst the theatres might not be West End quality or the rugby pitches not Twickenham standard they more than make up for this with really enthusiastic and capable teaching staff and heads that quite frankly are some of the best I have come across.

@Nith But there is coverage of this in other more reputable media orgs (see up thread.) So clearly not just smoke but no fire stirring from the Daily Fail?
I don't know where I stand with the papers now as I read them all online and don't limit to one (especially as I don't have anything better to do right now) and they all seem to have their merits and fails. I think I 'trust' the Guardian most but that is because of my upbringing I suspect! They have also reported on the Chinese influence on British Education (incl Universities) albeit in a slightly less sensationalist way!

@1dayatatime That is really interesting because I have a very close friend with a DC at Westonbirt which was bought out by Wishford when it was close to collapse (the Prep was thriving as a grammar-crammar but the senior school was flopping.) They have turned it co-ed which is helping but it still has a reputation as a school for those that struggle elsewhere (not that there is anything wrong with that as a USP, but it certainly does not have an academic reputation at all - quite the reverse.) Also I think it hardly has enough boys yet to make up sports teams and doesn't have an astro pitch which puts off lots of parents with sporty children, but maybe that will change as the years go on and boy numbers increase. The head has definitely moved away from trying to sell it as a Downtown abbey/Harry Potter looking school for foreign students and is more interested in the day school model I think.

[quote dipdips]@TheSockMonster That is fascinating that you think maybe the influence actually goes the other way and the children become more Westernised. Although anecdotaly my niece found at her boarding school the Chinese children kept to themselves in a group, which she found really sad as she really liked them and wanted to be more involved. She left in the end for another school which didn't seem so segregated as she found it just too strange at the one school.[/quote]
This is starting to change. One of the famous private British schools in China (won’t mention which one) now has more local kids rather than foreign passport holders. This has changed the culture of the school and there is a big divide between the two groups, sadly.

It’s because the rules about which locals can attend get relaxed and parents take advantage of those loopholes. I honestly don’t know what to think, in that it’s sad it loses its British character (as that aspect is what parents pay ££££ for) but this kind of inevitable as more locals enter.

But this is another issue for another thread, methinks.

I wish people argued on the merits of the article, not the source

They're not capable of doing so.

@dipdips

Yes I saw that Wishford had bought Westonbirt and turned it co ed and focusing on more local day pupils (no bad thing IMO).

You are right that Westonbirt was shall we say struggling academically for quite some time. They also tried to prop this up by taking in more and more overseas children. But even overseas parents want more than a fancy building.

Westonbirt is the first senior school bought by Wishford and it will be much more challenging and take much longer to turn around a large failing senior school than say a struggling prep school. But if they can make it work then they can roll out that model to another struggling senior school and if the can't make Westonbirt work then they can always sell it at a profit to a Chinese investor.

@1dayatatime I think their biggest problem will be the very good range of fee paying schools on offer in Bath - for people with the budget they offer so much more bang for buck! That said there is always a place for schools like Westonbirt Senior that support those who need some extra TLC, but I am not sure if that is a successful business model these days in such a competitive world. Shame really.

A friend of mine talking got games at a lesser known private school that was 50 / 50 day and boarding.

Anyway of the boarders half were from China, a quarter from Nigeria and the rest a mix of various countries and locals.

This became an issue in school rugby when the Nigerian and British boys were simply much bigger, stronger and faster than the Chinese boys. The Chinese boys started to refuse to play supported by their parents and even my teacher friend on safety ground after seeing one incident that he described as being like ten pin bowling.

Anyway this then led to the pupils being offered a choice between rugby and table tennis. This clearly led to an unhealthy divide between Chinese boys playing table tennis and Nigerian / British / others playing rugby.

I wish people argued on the merits of the article, not the source

When the article is published by a source that is well-known to be both bigoted and seriously unreliable, how can you ignore that fact?

What is noteworthy about the article is that it is seriously short on anything by way of evidence to demonstrate what they'e trying to get us worried about, which is presumably some sort of insidious Chinese takeover of British culture and/or using the schools to spread propaganda about the Chinese regime. It is essentially a list of schools that have been bought by China-based companies, mostly when they they were teetering on the brink of closing, and various dark hints.

When the article is published by a source that is well-known to be both bigoted and seriously unreliable, how can you ignore that fact?

What papers / media outlets would you consider to be reputable, reliable and well balanced sources of information? The guardian? The independent? The BBC?

@Nith Which is exactly why I asked if any parents could refute this - surely they would know what their children are being taught and if they had any concerns about it.

What papers / media outlets would you consider to be reputable, reliable and well balanced sources of information? The guardian? The independent? The BBC?

I take my news from a mix of sources, both UK and wider-based, and make my own judgments, not least based on the question of whether they offer actual evidence. Sources with a track record of proven lies and bias don't carry a whole lot of credence.

The Mails really really hates China, probably because of Racism, I very much doubt they care about The Uighurs.
The thing with The Chinese is that the key driver is usually money, ideology will normally come way way behind that so I imagine if they are investing in anywhere, be it British Private schools or African mines it will be more about profit than spreading Communism.
A British education is very prized in China and they probably think why not make money from that?

@Nith

"I take my news from a mix of sources, both UK and wider-based, and make my own judgments, not least based on the question of whether they offer actual evidence. Sources with a track record of proven lies and bias don't carry a whole lot of credence."

Look I am certainly no fan of the Daily Heil and I certainly agree with your approach of taking your news from a mix of sources in n order to make your own judgements.

However you the contradict your view by then excluding the Daily Mail on grounds of proven lies (all newspapers interpret data to fit their views) and bias (well all newspapers carry a bias from the Morning Star to the Telegraph).

A more accurate description of your approach would be that you take your news from a variety of sources that are in line with your existing views and exclude those that aren't on grounds of bias. You are then able to reinforce pre existing held views .

@Hoppinggreen

The Mails really really hates China, probably because of Racism, I very much doubt they care about The Uighurs. The thing with The Chinese is that the key driver is usually money, ideology will normally come way way behind that so I imagine if they are investing in anywhere, be it British Private schools or African mines it will be more about profit than spreading Communism. A British education is very prized in China and they probably think why not make money from that?

A couple of points:

Yes you are correct that the principal aim of Chinese Government/ companies is to make a profit. Now if they sell manufactured goods to the Wesr then they receive payment in dollars or euros or pounds. If they exchange all these for Renminbi then they they will change the exchange rate making their future exports more expensive. Far better to keep the dollars as dollars or pounds as pounds and invest the money in those countries.

Secondly being critical of the Chinese Communist Party, Chinese Government or Chinese companies is NOT in itself racist. Being critical of all Chinese people or making stereotypes of all Chinese people IS racist. There is a very big difference between the two views.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2020/07/china-s-ownership-uk-assets-exposes-britain-s-broken-mode

Why do Chinese companies invest
soft power innit🤷🏼‍♀️

[quote dipdips]@TheSockMonster That is fascinating that you think maybe the influence actually goes the other way and the children become more Westernised. Although anecdotaly my niece found at her boarding school the Chinese children kept to themselves in a group, which she found really sad as she really liked them and wanted to be more involved. She left in the end for another school which didn't seem so segregated as she found it just too strange at the one school.[/quote]
I’m afraid I can only offer rumour and hearsay as my own DC didn’t attend Riddlesworth (they attended a state primary school. This is another problem Riddlesworth has faced - it is a prep school surrounded by leafy middle class village primary schools...)

There were always lots of Chinese boarders at birthday parties etc so I presume at least some integration and parents who were happy enough to have their DC off campus for weekends.

I think being a prep school it’s predominantly foreign nationals and armed forces children full boarding at that age, and only natural that they forge closer relationships with each other than with the day students.

A more accurate description of your approach would be that you take your news from a variety of sources that are in line with your existing views and exclude those that aren't on grounds of bias. You are then able to reinforce pre existing held views

Indeed .

@Letsleepingdogslie8

How is this ‘worse’ than the 100s (possibly 1000s) of British schools around the world that teach using the British system rather than the local? Surely that could be viewed as ‘spreading British propaganda’?

Excellent point Letsleepingdogslie8.

I am all for other cultures being spread globally other than just British, especially coming from an ethnic minority myself.

The only issue here is that the Chinese communist state has well documented issues with preventing freedom of speech and also more horrifically, the human rights and genocide questions which they are consistently failing to answer.
The last time I checked, Britain does not commit these crimes in 2021 although, has in the past under its empire.

The real issue here is why are China's genocide of the Uighurs muslims not been addressed by the international community (as it's akin to the Jewish Holocaust).
The charge being made indirectly by the Daily FFFail article is that we need to curtail this influence (gained by expanding their education businesses made possible by borrowing the leading British education brand and using alumni like Diana to cement its brand) so that the expanding Chinese communist parties influence is not expanded further.......imagine that the 1000's of students from these schools in 20 years time will be denying the genocide of Uighur muslims......pretty much like the Tibetan genocide has been and is now a distant memory.....sadly, their culture has been bred out.

I understand that it's a complicated argument and it's not as straightforward as "why are we attacking Chinese culture" which is one of the longest successful cultures in the world - the current regime pushing it are rather more questionable.

I am sure that the Daily FFFail would not be writing such an article if the owners of these schools were from countries which share the same values as the majority of the world - free speech and basic human rights .....i.e. not being wiped out, forced sterilisations, removing children from their parents, not allowing cultures to exercise their cultural & religious beliefs (i.e. forced shaving of bears, hair).....I haven't even started on the brain washing prisons which they term educational facilities where well documented rapes have occured- perhaps they might start exporting these to Britain in 50years??? Obviously, this is the doomsday scenario but do we act now or are you happy to sit back to allow these atrocities to occur and only act when its too late - on doomsday?

I can't believe given the wide press coverage why we are not capable of seeing the dangers of this type of influence on our education (and that of the world given the British school brands are exported to other countries).

WAKE UP FOLKS! Smell the green tea!