Chinese Ownership of 17 private schools in Uk

[dipdips]

I know this was in the Daily Fail but is there any truth in it? Are these schools really spreading propaganda or is this a bit of sensationalism? Anyone have a child at these schools and can refute this, they don’t seem to have asked parents their opinions!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9282617/British-private-institutions-bought-Chinese-firms.html

@Letsleepingdogslie8 I said to my husband as we were reading it that head I were hardly taught balanced history at our private schools!

@Letsleepingdogslie8

How is this ‘worse’ than the 100s (possibly 1000s) of British schools around the world that teach using the British system rather than the local? Surely that could be viewed as ‘spreading British propaganda’?

There a great place to discuss that issue and it’s not in this thread.

It seems more like ‘whataboutery’ and like you are trying to shut down conversation.

And I’ve had a quick look - it’s using phrases like “tentacles” and “whitewashing”

Sorry - but tentacles is whipping up fear and as for the idea of “whitewashing” - well any quick look at how the history of the British Empire is taught would tell you that we are the experts in such an approach.

This is not a balanced report by any means.

And and, these are private schools 🤷🏻‍♀️

Let’s abolish them then if people are worried that private schools could, shock horror, be owned by private individuals with their own agenda?

Would the daily mail be reporting if schools were bought by the likes of say, Arron Banks? I bet not.

why do Chinese companies invest in Brisith ‘charities’

Private schools which are charities, are charities. It's a legal status, not a euphemism. But not all private schools are charities.

There is nothing to stop one business buying another - and when a British chain takes over other schools, there is nothing in the papers about it.

So how many of the 17 bought (separately, by various) Chinese entities were charities?

@Letsleepingdogslie8 an interesting concept! I think, however, that given most British international Schools have to be approved, run and inspected by the local education authorities, and most foreign governments actively promote British independent schools opening up on their soil, I think the thirst for a well established and effective educational model is what they see British schooling as... if it was propaganda, the Chinese wouldn’t be endorsing the many hundreds of them in/opening in China, I’m sure!

@dipdips, no worries! There’s so many that are also British companies too, ‘gardener schools’ are another example, they own a number of London Indies including Kew House School. L

@Iggly I see what you mean about old news - these are maybe slightly more reputable media outlets?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/westminster-and-kings-accused-of-helping-chinese-teach-propaganda-g2982z3sj

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/16/how-fake-award-for-a-tycoon-left-oxford-university-open-to-chinese-influence

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-49511231

It seems more like ‘whataboutery’ and like you are trying to shut down conversation.

It seems to me to be bith broadening and deepening the discussion by looking at the subject from other angles.

And of course things aren't unrelated to other things in the real world. Discussion flows better when the cry of 'Whataboutery! Shut up! Is not used as a silencer

I’m not going to legitimise a newspaper which has roots in the facist movement and has recently had some appalling misleading headlines when it comes to immigration, for example

Then don’t. But then don’t come into this thread and try to shut down conversation just because you don’t like the source.

Having a tiny splash of decent reporting amongst a sea of hate is not good enough for me I’m afraid

Again, fine for you. But ask yourself why other news media won’t touch certain topics? If we are concerned about immigration issues or trans issues, and the DM is the only one willing to cover it, that essentially means you won’t be a part of the conversation.

Again, maybe fine for you. But I don’t accept that.

Meh. My Dh works at a private school that’s recently been taken over by Spanish investors. Wonder why the fail isn’t up in arms about that? I’m sure DH’s school isn’t the only one.

@MangoFeverDream I just added some similar articles upthread from The Times, Guardian and BBC for @Iggly so I think other outlets do touch on the subject albeit in a less sensational way.

@Snooptheboot I don't think you can compare Spain and China's record on human rights and freedom of speech suppression though?

@Snooptheboot

Meh. My Dh works at a private school that’s recently been taken over by Spanish investors. Wonder why the fail isn’t up in arms about that? I’m sure DH’s school isn’t the only one.

Hmmm, maybe it’s because the Spanish aren’t known for censoring their internet, jailing activists and silencing academics?

There are Uighur scholars who can’t return home because they’d probably be arrested. Don’t think many Spanish scholars are in that position.

@RoseAndRose

It seems more like ‘whataboutery’ and like you are trying to shut down conversation.

It seems to me to be bith broadening and deepening the discussion by looking at the subject from other angles.

And of course things aren't unrelated to other things in the real world. Discussion flows better when the cry of 'Whataboutery! Shut up! Is not used as a silencer

No, you are essentially dismissing concerns by saying ‘we do it too!’

That was not my intention - i meant to g mfurther than that and say those who post it are the most responsible for silencing others who are bringing their thoughts to the thread. For it is the 'whataboutery' call which is telling another poster to cease and desist, and I think that is the epitome of silencing someone.

I am perfectly happy to contiunue to discuss my take on that practice, even at risk of derailing the thread (sorry diodips ) because I want to make it clear that I am not telling another poster to shut up and take their views away. I am commenting on 'whaaboutery' as a silencing tactic in itself.

Or are we meant to remain silent about our views on that as well?

Rose your posts are fine, it was sleeping dogs who essentially handwaved concerns by bringing in the issue of British schools opening abroad.

That is an unrelated issue

It’s interesting that any discussion of worries about China or it’s influence are very quickly shut down and people accused of racism. There are some very disturbing things about the regime and how it treats people. Some raised by Manofeverdream up thread.

This is a country that is imprisoning it’s ethnic minority citizens, dissapears critics, threatens countries that criticise it and has very worrying - for a liberal like me - beliefs about freedom of speech and freedom of thought. The soft power exerted on institutions by their owners is something we can talk about and think about without being deemed racist. Was the thread about women’s rights in the UAE racist for discussing posters unease with visiting the kingdom while their human rights record is so poor.

@RoseAndRose Didn't feel you were derailing at all. Loving hearing all the different opinions. Frankly I have baked more than enough brownies, taken the dog out more than the poor thing can manage, read every book I can lay my hands on - so hanging out with intelligent souls of different mindsets on Mumsnet is my preferred lockdown fun these days!

These schools were principally bought as a pure business investment. The British private school system has a reputation abroad as one of the best all round educational systems in the world ( even if they have a somewhat different reputation in Britain itself).

It is for that reason large numbers of overseas children are sent to boarding schools in Britain which the schools are happy to take because they pay higher fees. For example Bosworth has a very high intake of overseas pupils and hardly any UK nationals.

However although overseas children can pay higher fees there is a limit to their number before the school starts looking more like an international school than a British private school. Which is fine if you want to send your children to an international school but not if you don't. For example I recently helped a Chinese business associate on a visit to a less well known UK private school which they rejected simply because there were too many Chinese pupils there - their view being we want to send our child to get a rounded British private education with experience of a western children but if we wanted a more academic Chinese with interaction just with other Chinese children then we know much better schools doing this back in China.

The other angle of the investors is as stated they will use the British brand name of these schools to launch satellite schools in other countries particularly the Far East.

British schools opening abroad is I think a reasonable angle, but one I wouldn't say is parallel, because AFAIK these are overtly British schools and so parents can choose that style of education. Other nationalities have such schools - there are several in London (US, French, German etc) and are largely used by expats, dual nationals and others who specifically want that school system.

I'm not aware of British companies buying schools abroad (say in China, as that's where the thread started, but could be anywhere) and keeping them Chinese in character. Is it happening much?

@1dayatatime Really interesting perspective on it thank you! So do you think the article is right in saying many more UK based fee paying schools are going to be bought up by investors because they are struggling so much with battered finances due to Covid issues? It painted a pretty grim picture of the industry right now.

@MangoFeverDream I am not trying to shut conversation down, I am merely putting across the point that there still seems to be a hangover from colonialism whereby some people seem to think an action is fine for them but not for others. The Daily Nazi are always playing this game.

@Nathbiker The UK Chinese-owned schools would be subject to our inspection systems (Ofsted / Estyn).

I wasn’t trying to suggest that British schools are in any way spreading British propaganda. It was more to wonder why the Daily Nazi has to insinuate this will happen with these schools just because it is China?

@Letsleepingdogslie8 If you scroll back up thread there is a fair amount of coverage in other more 'reputable' media outlets along the same line, including Chinese state official influence in British Higher Education institutions. So not just the Daily Fail.

@RoseAndRose

British schools opening abroad is I think a reasonable angle, but one I wouldn't say is parallel, because AFAIK these are overtly British schools and so parents can choose that style of education. Other nationalities have such schools - there are several in London (US, French, German etc) and are largely used by expats, dual nationals and others who specifically want that school system.

I'm not aware of British companies buying schools abroad (say in China, as that's where the thread started, but could be anywhere) and keeping them Chinese in character. Is it happening much?

There are British schools in China eg Harrow, dulwich, Wellington and even Wycombe Abbey. Whether Chinese nationals can attend will depend on the school licence. Most international type schools are for foreign passport holders only. Chinese parents sending their children to these schools are often looking for what they believe to be the whole UK experience eg developing beautiful manners and social skills. Ime the schools don’t tend to be Chinese in character and some parents struggle with this as they expect much more homework and rote learning for their 250k rmb per year.

I have friends who had DC at Riddlesworth prep when it was brought by a Chinese company. Riddlesworth had been struggling for a while with low enrolments and barely a year went by without rumours it may close. There was initial concern it may change the ethos of the school (from holistic to overly academic), but everyone seems happy.

It has quite a high number of Chinese students but balances this with 100% academic scholarships to local children which keeps numbers balanced.

I suspect the Chinese company bought it because lots of Chinese parents are keen for their DC to go to British boarding school. I hear that, in addition to the kudos of having a British education, many of the Chinese parents send their DC to British schools because they prefer the ethos, in which case it seems the cultural influence is going the other way. Maybe the Chinese companies are seeking to control this but maybe, and more likely perhaps, they just saw an opportunity to make money.