Calling all teachers.....

[GirlySwot]

....if money was no object would you send your kids state or private? (and why?!)

Absolutely fine girlyswot. As you say, it's your choice. But the fact is there WERE mothers at the private school I taught in who were clearly underemployed and bored, and I'm afraid they were the ones who ended up interfering and gossiping. Which in all honesty I don't believe can be good for their children. As you say, you are doing the school drop off and pick up because that's what you want to do. But don't make the mistake of thinking that it's therefore the only right way. My own mother was a SAHM while I was at school. She was always there to drop us off and pick us up, make the tea etc. And guess what? I really don't think it did anything for my confidence as a child. I honestly think I would have preferred her to have more of a life that didn't revolve around myself and my siblings. I was terribly envious of a friend of mine whose mum had an interesting job!

State. Every time.

I wouldn't teach in the private sector either. I don?t agree with teachers being trained by the taxpayer and then opting to teach in the private sector.

Teachers aren't trained by the taxpayer. They go to Uni like other professionals and then chose which sector to work in.

Do you feel the same about solicitors and accountants too?

Surely private school teachers pay tax too?

The government paid my fees when I trained.

LOL, yama

Inthegutter, I am a teacher in the state sector and come from a family of teachers. I have worked in a lot of state schools in various different areas (I have taught GCSE classes in at least 5 local schools) in various capacities. I am pretty well-read in all kinds of research into education. However, my decision to send my kids to a private school is ultimately a personal one based on my personal experience and my personal hopes and expectations for my own children. It is a decision I have made which in some ways has gone against my wider principles (though as I've said earlier in the age of increasing faith schools, league tables and middle-class choice I feel less guilty about it than I would if all of us had only the choice between our nearest state comp or private).

I went to a state comp. I did fine academically. I am pretty successful. If I had gone to a top notch private school I probably would have got a couple more A grades and while I got 3 Cs at GCSE in my state school at least 2 of these might have been Bs (no school or teacher could have got me any better than a C in maths because I hated it). I almost certainly would have got a better grade at A Level in 2 subjects too. However, my GCSE and A Level grades were good anyway and I don't think if they'd been marginally better it would have made any real difference to my life. Even if I had gone to a top notch private school I probably would have still been a teacher and would be happy with teaching as I am now.

But I am sure I would not have had to endure daily bullying for being weird, swotty, a 'snob' and so on which mainly involved name calling and being spat on as I got off the school bus (treatment to be fair which was doled out to everyone and not just those who wanted to do well). I am quite sure that I wouldn't have been bored to death in English lessons as I had to listen to incredibly boring and basic texts being stumbled over in the class while I was reading Jane Austen at home. I think increasingly that I would have been encouraged to have been a more confident and articulate speaker and I actually think increasingly that the legacy of my comprehensive education means that I am still shy in discussion.

And this is why I chose private education for my kids. Not cos of academic results, not even because of small class sizes or extra curricular activities or any of the other many advantages which it gives them but because I personally think there is a much greater likelihood that they will be happy there and be able to develop to the best of their ability academically and socially. I want them to be happy at school first and foremost and then challenged and supported secondly.

For me those things are probably the second most important thing I can give to my kids after my own love and support for them (which is a given and a constant). And for me that's worth making all kinds of sacrifices for.

The thing about bored mums is absolutely ridiculous and totally irrelevant. As I've said there are few mums at the private school my kids attend who do not work for a living. At my local state school there are plenty of bored unemployed mums who hang round the school gates.

Message withdrawn

No, it breeds snobbery (where I live anyway). Scotland, in my opinion, has a far superior primary education system, not sure what I would do if I lived in England though.

I have to say that I've met parents that don't value their child's education even though they are paying for it. It's not a given.

If you pay for your child's education then of course you value it otherwise you'd just go to the nearest free state school.

Yes, I know there are a mysterious bunch of parents who choose private schools primarily for the natty uniform, or the social networking, or as a status symbol or for other superficial reasons (though I have to say I have yet to meet these infamous parents on this site or in real life) but even they (stupid as they are) must see that an education (and very often many advantages likely to encourage academic success) are also kind of part of the deal...

Just to repeat I'm not saying that no parents who send their kids to state school values education but there are many who don't whereas every parent who sends their kid to private school values education at least enough to think it is worth the school fees (very often a substantial proportion of their salaries as it is in my case).

I've also noticed that a lot more is expected of private school parents (at least at the school my dcs attend) as well as just the fees in terms of homework supervision, making sure the kids have right uniform and right kit for PE, swimming etc. This from aged 3! I've been astounded by the sort of commitment they expect to be honest. This degree of parental supervision and participation could never be made compulsory in the state sector but if the parents are not doing this stuff at the private school you'd probably get hauled in and asked if it was the right school for you.

I teach in a selective state school and I have met parents, who once their child have passed to get in, sit back and do nothing. What's even worse are the ones who say at parents' evenings, "B grade! That's not good enough, what are YOU going to do about it?"!! Well, obviously I pull out my magic wand...

My brother went to a well-known London private school and got mediocre exam results, but for the £12,000 plays a mean game of cricket and is very confident. I went to state school and got very good exam results and went to an excellent uni. I simply got the better teaching. .

Having seen how badly a State school can let you down (pastoral as well as academically) I would def choose Private. in fact my ds has a taster day on Monday at a local prep school (he is 8 and in year 4 and has recently been subjected to bullying beyond what most children could take and has had death threats - state school will not act and do anything about this boy) I am very unhappy

I like the sound of 18-20 in a class, traditional values, lots of sport which he is keen on and extracurricular activities. Fees are a shock but I would do anything to make my ds the happy sunny boy he was before the bullying started. also prep school have a 3 point sanction on bullying which does result in removal from the school. Sorry going off topic here

CGM XX

I take it the meeting didn't go well on Friday, CowsGoMoo?

Home Ed.

I was going to say "why keep a dog and bark yourself?" but it's more like "why get someone else to do barking of greater or lesser quality when you yourself are a top notch dog with many splendid doggy contacts to help provide an educationally and socially rich environment?"

slinks off, tail between legs

emmaagain, absolutely agree with you - I would love to home educate, specially as with partner and myself being teachers and therefore having specialist knowledge of exam courses etc. Unfortunately though we both need to work teaching other people's kids to pay the mortgage though!

Ah - we opted out of the mortgage route - renting cheaply so we can live on one income, don't run a car, no foreign holidays yada yada :-)

(feckless maybe not to have bought, but we'd rather be poorer and get to spend loads of time with our own offspring rather than other people's)

Being able to afford something is not the same as valuing it. Sure there are responsibilities - the nanny does them, apart from father and son night which he will be late for and leave after 10 minutes to take a mobile phone call that simply can't wait.

Child goes to that school because all his colleagues children go. If they went to the school down the road I'm sure he would send them there. He is simply not interested.

And this would be a description of at least 3 fathers at one school.

This may be a description of 3 fathers at a school YOU know but it is not typical. I know no parent at my children's school (and have not met any other parent whose children are at private school) who have chosen the school because it's where their colleagues parents go (and I don't know how you can really know this yourself TBH).

It would be unusual (and I'm inclined to think nearly impossible) to choose a private school without not only giving it no thought but without giving it a great deal of thought. First, there's the obvious practical issue of can we afford it and do we want to spend our money in this way? And will we still be able to afford it in another 5 or 10 years time? Then there's which private school do we choose which is likely to involve looking at locality, fees, exam pass rates... then there's likely to be open days and a selection process involving exams and interviews. Then there might be other issues like the one about the colleagues' kids (which might be one of many perfectly legitimate factors to take into account because of sharing trasportation and pick ups and because of friendship groups etc). Then there's the ethical considerations. And all that's before you get your kids in the door!!

These are issues which require thought and long term commitment. It's not just about being able to AFFORD the fees either, it's about choosing to spend your money in this way potentially for the next 14 years and potentially twice, three or four times over (depending on how many kids you have).

As for the nanny issue even in top London schools you're talking about a very small minority of kids whose nannies are taking responsibility for homework and uniform and so on. But at least someone is. In many state schools there's no one to take responsilibty for the kids even going to school and often no way to enforce it.

So yes, the fact remains that those who do choose private education for their kids do value education even if it's not for all the 'right' reasons (whatever they are) or even if you don't approve of the fact that it's actually the nanny who supervises the homework or even if they're late for the father and son whatever (in many state schools there are lots of parents who never set foot in the door and some who have court orders preventing them from doing so, so I still see coming to an event at school even if you're late for it as positive and a sign of involvement in your kid's education which many many parents never are. They remain not just ABLE to pay (and many are only just able after making many sacrifices) but WILLING to.