Calling all teachers.....

[GirlySwot]

....if money was no object would you send your kids state or private? (and why?!)

We are in Sheffield, and I know from when I looked around that the fees at DD's school are slightly higher than the fees at the other primary level private schools int he city. They are nowhere near £20k a year!

Our school (day) fees are just over £7200 a year for the pre-prep years. During DD's first year we were able to use nursery vouchers to reduce this a little. These will obviously increase as DD moves onto Prep years and then again at secondary level, as well as with the annual fee increases (approx 8% a year it would seem). This is an all inclusive fee inc school trips (not the big ones, but little day trips), milk, lunch and after school provision. Extra curricular clubs, breakfast club and musical tuition is extra.

ahundredtimes - you are right, some schools simply don't deal with certain areas such as SEN or G&T as well as others. This is the same concern for all schools in both sectors, some good, some not so good and some rubbish. You are right to look for a school that best meets the needs of your child, wherever that may be.

I don't know if opting for private is just about snobbery/wanting dc to be seen in smart blazers and caps. My sister-in-law says that the vast majority of parents at her son's private prep are ordinary people, driving ageing estate cars, going camping each year , with the mums working full time to help meet the fees. For whatever reason, they feel the state system has failed/would fail their children, and I have to say that, if we weren't lucky enough (and it is largely down to luck, after all, with a bit of tweaking on choosing where to live) to have landed good states for our 2, I might have considered topping up my meagre teaching salary by going on the streets to fund private too.
BTW, I didn't mean "all" bright kids will do well wherever, as I fully accept there are some teachers who can't/won't differentiate. I just think (hope?) my 2 will be OK, although am keeping antennae waving.......

At DD's school the vast majority of parents are also just ordinary people too. Yes, one or two are very well off, and a few there are stuggling and making big compromises elsewhere to manage the fees. For the most though they are somewhere int he middle.

If money is no object makes the issue too easy. What's more interesting is what would you sacrifice for private school?

I am in the very fortunate position of not having to make sacrifices to pay for DD's education. She is an only child and for us one set of school fees is very much manageable whilst still being able to have holidays, nice house in good area, two cars, etc.

NFK exactly - that was the point I was trying to make earlier. Given the financial constraints most people have to live with, and bearing in mind that the extent to which any school meets a child's needs is going to be on a spectrum (ie no school can 100% meet an individual's needs, neither is any school likely to completely fail a child)the real question is how far do you make sacrifices to pay for private education? If I lived in a catchment area with failing schools which had very low exam pass rates, or if my child was unhappy in a school, I would move heaven and earth to make changes. Though tbh this would probably be moving to another area rather than choosing private. But I cannot for the life of me understand why some parents reject good or outstanding state schools with GCSE pass rates of 70% or higher in favour of private. I don't get it even if they're relatively well off, and if they're having to make huge sacrifices then it's truly ludicrous!

Well, I guess 70% A - Cs isn't enough for some parents. The private schools pride themselves on 100% A - Cs and a very high percentage of children getting A grades. Plus all the extra etc....

I suppose there is always more to long for.

Always interesting to hear what people consider a sacrifice though.

DH and I teach in state at very different ends of the spectrum. He was educated in state, me in private and state so I'm more open to the idea of using private for our children.

If we could afford it and my child were bright enough, I'd send them to public school or a number of private schools. These offer an excellent education and excellent opportunities.

Since that is very unlikely, it would have to be a pretty poor state school for me to consider private generally. Certainly I'd want to look at the staff turnover and where the pupils went onto after leaving.

Controversially perhaps, what has put me off private education is knowing some of the teachers who have been employed by private schools, who wouldn't be touched by a barge-pole by state. I wouldn't want them influencing my children.

I've never understood the obsessoion with 100% pass rate. What matters to me is what MY children get.If 70% of the kids in a school get 5 A-C grades and my child is among that 70%, do I really give a monkey's about what the other 30% got? But then perhaps it comes down to confidence in your own child's ability and your ability as a parent to influence and nurture them. Maybe it's the parents whose children are less bright whp obsess about the 100% thing. Heated - I'll be interested to see if your comment does provoke some contoversy, but you're absolutely right. I know of teachers in the private system who simply wouldn't get a job in state - they're not up to scratch. In fact a friend of mine has just moved her dd from private to state precisely because of some really poor quality, dull, uninspiring teaching. Yes, the kids passed their exams, but that was because they were above average kids who were spoonfed through the exm machine. To my mind that has nothing to do with an enriching learning experience.

Interested to hear what some one said about reporting being more rigorous and meaningful in the state sector.

Just spoke to yr 10 girl in highly prestigious private school, who told me how her singing teacher blasted her verbally for not enough work, commitment etc to her face, but put rosy comments on her written report!

Am sure state schools sometimes contradict themselves in reports, but there have been efforts in recent years to cut the waffle and give meaningful information.

Actually, having visited comprehensive, Grammar and private schools recently looking for a secondary school for ds1 in September 2008, the dullest, most uninteresting and most uninterested teachers I met were in the Grammar schools - not surprising really as they get the brightest of the bright and could probably ignore the kids for 5 years and they'd still get A grades. I didn't find much to choose between the private school and comprehensive teachers, personally.

inthegutter - big difference though if your local state school was 70% A-C or 25% A-C surely? Which is what some people are faced with.

My DD is too young to worry about her ability at GCSE. I hope she will simply try her best and reach her potential, plus some maybe. ASnd that she is happy wherever she is educated.

And from my teaching experience I am still convinced that it is not necessarily the case that a bright child will always do well regardless of where they go to school. That is, in some schools, quite simply not the case, sorry.

Ohm, and re reports in state school. No difference IME. Some very good, some very poor - just depends on which teacher wrote them! Having been a form tutor in the past for a few years I have read some great report, and some dire reports - across both the schools I worked at (the good one and the not so good. The generalisations of these things just doesn't hold up, sorry - on either side TBH.

Oh, and inthegutter - I know of state school teachers who have tried to get jobs in private schools and failed, as not up to scratch. I also know of a private school teacher who would not stand a chance in some of the worst state schools, she'd be eaten alive! But then I also worked with many state school teachers int hat first school I worked at who wouldn't have finished the first year at the second school I was at (I managed 5, just!) Again, massive generalisations being made. Almost all private schools expect their teachers to have the same level of qualification/experience as sstate schools these days.

Hula, i do agree with you that generalisations aren't helpful, but I must say that we often think about going private for ds if we can in the future, and one thing does niggle me and that has been the quality of the staff; ds went to the nursery attached to a local pre-prep and tbh the teacher was an unprofessional cow, and the report she wrote him was written in language that was very, very old fashioned in that it was negative and judgemental and talked in terms of ds 'finding it difficult to fit in' Quite apart from the fact that ds has never, ever had a problem anywhere else other than with this 'lady'.....I was shocked at how out of touch with good practice they were.

Again, I know I am generalising now to let this worry me about all private education; but so far the state teaching and attitudes have been way, way better quality.

We'll keep thinking about it though.

Would rather send my child to a school that had 25% A-C but some children who achieved all A Grades than a 70% A-C where children who should have achieved As got Cs...

Last school I worked at in Tottenham was 38% A-C - generally children that could do well - espesh those with parental support, did. Dh's well-regarded old school in Richmond was put into special measures as children were not achieving their potential (although getting the C Grades). I know which school I'd rather my dd goes to.

Agree that it is about individual schools - private or state BUT I still can't see me sending dd private and I live in Hackney so not the most glowing state schools.

Awful English there for a teacher (how embarrasing - my excuse is I have a toddler on my leg...)

You also have to look at the statistics with some care (as ever!). many schools get a 70% by putting weaker students in for some GNVQs which in the stats count for 4 GCSE a-C grades.

The child might get that, and one other GCSE

dd1 goe to the local state school and so will dd2. It is a great little school and we are just lucky to have good state primaries in our borough.
Secondary? IMO it's a no brainer. Private, every time. why? class sizes alone swing it. I speak as a p/t state secondary teacher - my A level classes are between 19 and 22 in size. GCSE is 30 - 32 ( taught in forms).

mummymagic - couldn't agree more. Some schools which on the surface appear to be highly achieving, don't necessarily get kids to achieve their potential. As someone also said earlier, some kids who are very able could be virtually ignored from when they come into Year 7, and would still get top grade GCSEs simply because they're clever. It doesn't mean they've had good teaching or an enriching experience. The school my dd goes to has a reputation for getting kids the grades they deserve - ie they aren't content with bright kids just passing exams, they teach them in an inspiring way to get top grades.

cat64 - the first state school I worked at had it's own swimming pool, it's own large playing fields, a separate larger playing field just down the road, seperate science labs, technology labs, brand new ICT suites, well equipped resources, new books, etc. as well as "windows that fit" and new well cared for buildings.

I was a teacher 20 years ago. State.

My dd is about to start at a private prep school which was one of the most difficult decisions I have ever made in my life and it was a decision made after some presuure from dp, dd and my immediate family but having made it I think it was the right one for dd although perhaps not the right "moral decision"

Her prep fees start at £6K a year and go up to just under £14K as she goes through the school or £20K for boarders. While as a school manager I earn more than the average teacher it is not that much more and dp has a very average job so although we will not starve we need to make scarifices to pay the fees.

I teach in a town with real problems to d with deprivation and low levels of achievement and in an attempt to deal with this the schools here are going to go through immense change and most of it is designed to suit the needs of less able children from a deprived background and therefore will not really benefit my dd. I am also worried about her being a guinea pig. We are also quite strict catholics and I want her to have a catholic education which is happening at primary but doesn't later on.

I also have worried about dd being endlessly pumped with facts so that she can pass endless tests and assessments. If she were to go to one of the local "better" schools she will be made to sit GNVQs whether she wants to or not to psuh up their figures, anything extra curricular is pushed out in an endless effort to be top of the league tables. The other choice is to send her to a school where there are very few able children and she will not achieve her potential. All of the schools in the town are in financial dire straits as well meaning oppurtunities are limited, support is almost non existant and class sizes are growing. Her private school offers classes of about 15 and endless extra curricular oppurtunities as well as wrap around care so I can continue to work as hard as I do for the kids in this town who will sadly never be able to access the kind of education I ahve worked so hard to make a reality for my dd.

My decision may be coloured by the fact I have always taught in tough schools who are coming out of special measures or trying very hard to avoid it.