When do you know if your child is bright enough to get into a selective/very selective school?

[user1471592953]

Tried posting this in Primary, but didn’t get any responses.

When do you know if your child is bright enough to get into a selective school? I realise there are different thresholds for selection.

I’m asking because I have a DC in Reception who is reading okay, picking up numbers and counting okay and is writing okay. DC seems bright enough at learning but is equally interested in playing at this stage. DC is 4 and early Summer born.

There is nothing I can identify e.g. reading fluently or advanced in maths to show that DC may be bright enough to get into a selective school at, say, prep age. Does that mean DC isn’t, or true ability isn’t revealed yet?

We had hoped to send DC to an independent school for secondary but are thinking about a prep beforehand. But it is difficult to tell which prep to aim for at this stage due to lack of certainty about DC’s ability.

Hope this post makes sense and would be interested to hear thoughts/advice.

Thanks.

1805 in many schools Star of the Week is invariably awarded to the naughtier kid who gets the award for sitting still for 10 minutes on the rug during reading time!

SeasonFinale
Lol! My DS was certainly not the naughty child! DD a few years later most definitely was though!!!! Although she only ever got star of the week once in the whole year.

@1805

When your 5yr old and their friend make up a game called "Pandora's Box", including a Mount Olympus, and Zeus. . They are now at Oxford and Cambridge studying Science and Engineering. (Well, DS is starting in Sept cos he took a gap year. ) In reception Ds was the winner of Star of the Week an embarrassing number of times, and his work was regularly chosen for displays. He was just always asking questions, and remembering things. Memory is key I think. He used to say in yrs R-3, he usually finished his work before the others, and have to do colouring in. He grew to hate colouring in. We moved him to a different school in y4. He loved his new school as he was suddenly among others like himself, and was being challenged and kept busy. He was no longer top of the class, but 'near' the top instead. Good luck OP. Keep reading to him/her, and let them experience as much as possible. And keep talking and discussing stuff with them too.

Wow, your children sound amazing. Just wondered how important you think about peer effects? Do your children like competitions and how was the cohort like? Was your DS challenged after switching school? Thank you

twinsyang
Thank you . It's interesting looking at DS. He just always got on with his homework by himself. We actually had very little input into his schooling. I think the peers question is a good one. DS started at the village primary school in a cohort of 18. There were only 6 boys in the class. He moved in y4 to a boys selective private school. Suddenly he was learning about Nelson's battle tactics and building Siege towers in DT. He loved it! He was no longer top of the class either! It was like being in a class full of people just like himself. Although a shy child, he fitted in so well, he easily made friends and was really happy there. By y8, his class had received a record number of awards to senior schools. More than double the usual amount. I honestly believe they all bounced off each other, and strived to be at the top. So yes, I think peer group is important.

On the whole, being shy, he doesn't go in for competitions though. But he does enjoy success.

DD on the other hand is a different kettle of fish!!! . We struggled to find the right school for her.
What makes a school 'right' for a DC?? I think it's a combination of peer group aspirations, style and content of teaching, balance of practical/creative/academic curriculum.

In Bucks the top 30% do not go to grammars all over the county. There are discrepancies between the district areas. Hence DC not living in Bucks are admitted. It is who passes the exams at the required mark and then admission rules are applied. However, getting the required mark is the first thing. If insufficient numbers "Pass" they do not lower the pass mark to ensure 30% of primary DC get in. They go through the admission critiera and apply them. However the grammars here are not as selective as some.

Star of the week goes on a loose rota in most schools so everyone is not pissed off with the same "star" being identiifed every week. A wide range of attributes should be considered from good work to being kind to another pupil or whatever is praiseworthy. No, it is not just for naughty children.

@angrysquirrel73

MrsPatmore our son had a CATS test in year 3 and it says expected score is 100 and high score is 110. Does this mean that 120 would not be 'excellent'. You need 135+? The scale on his test result only goes up to 120?

@angrysquirrel73 if the top score quoted was 120 it was probably his predicted SAT scaled score not the CAT score. The CAT score may have been used to make the prediction.

100 for a scaled score is average and 110 is the lowest possible score for achieving greater depth which about 10% of pupils obtain nationally across all subjects. More achieve the score in just one area.

Regarding the OP-- selective indies are typically taking the top 10% and above. Work ethic comes into play too though.

I think you can notice that level of brightness quite young but not by what they can do like read etc but what they are like and a sparkle in the eye. You can see they are just more switched on.

Being good at lying at 2 /3 has been a fairly good indicator amongst the children I know (including my own). Development is very uneven though so 7 is typically seen as the earliest you can reliable determine academic ability.

Thanks, everyone. I’m still reading and find your thoughts very helpful.

Tricky q, I have 2 dc, one is solid learner, excellent memory, natural learner, absorbs first time around and understands.

The other, struggles to read, bored but is amazing problem solver and probably the more entrepreneurial of the 2 but struggles at school because they teach to the crowd and not how she understands.

I feel nervous about people writing off those who struggle with maths or reading. They could have the ability but are shut out by phonics or similar.
The progress my dc made when we went our own way on reading is probably faster and higher than her peers even though she's probably average to very slightly below now.

I find this interesting especially re the nature v nurture. My children are too small really but I think my 4yo is bright. I was at that age and that translated into academic success. I’ve seen with other family members how they’ve grown and developed while being a bit more detached and objective because they’re not my own children. One got an academic scholarship to a top day school. He was always freakishly good at maths from toddlerhood but had to work at English and had a tendency to be a bit lazy/rush things. The other one also got into a selective but was more of a solid all-rounder and was more diligent. You would have picked the first one out as having something ‘extra’ at 4 but not the second. I suspect they’ll both end up with similar exam results in the end.

Still here, still reading...! Thanks.

I think it's nature, with a bit of nurture.

I have 2 dc. One is very academic, (see my post above), the other is….not. . DD takes the path of least effort, but is much more creative than DS. Her thing is drama. There is no point trying to force DD to do hours of studying/revision. She's just not interested. DS on the other hand just got on and did all his work.

The ability to pass 11+ test really depends on the child resiliency in terms of sitting down to do practice tests however not much about the child’s intelligent or smartness. He needs to prepare for it.

Many children were prepared for it for years including taking 7+ exams and or entering a prep. These children of course will perform better on the day as they have been practising for it for years. Fortunately, not many parents could do that or afford to pay for prep so there are places for children who just prepare for a year or two for these exams. It really depends on which school to be honest. If your target is a super selective then he needs to start his prep now. By just simply buying books online as the tests are very different to the day to day learning at primary school. He could start off gently rather than do a sprint at the end.

My parents were so worried about me when I was 8 that they had my IQ tested... I then got into St. Paul’s Girls at 11 and went on to Oxford so not sure you can tell when they’re in Reception!

@ThroughTheMirrorEmpire - thanks for your input - made me laugh!

Thanks to everyone else for commenting as well.

I had a feeling that DD was bright but it was confirmed last year. Bil is a teacher in a selective school. He puts dd into an online maths competition alongside students in his school. She came in the top half of all year 7 and 8 students while she was only 6 at the time. DH estimates that she has gained an extra 3 years of Maths in the last 10 months with a couple of hours study a week on and off.

That's so strange that everyone knows that their child was at top table or not! In our school that's not something that is shared with children or parents, and it fact it can't be any table as children are free to choose who to sit with, as long as they make "good choices " (no chatting). The work is tailored to each child no matter where they sit.

In my experience the positives & negatives of my son' academic abilities really started to become apparent at about age 8 or 9.

e.g. I'd have always said he was all-round very bright [first in his primary class to read well, always on the top tables, full marks in all spelling tests, etc].

He's now 9, coming up to 10, and i've realised, especially during home schooling, that he's not actually all that good with languages. He was the best writer in his class aged 5, but isn't now, a few have overtaken him, so he's only kind of 'above average', not exceptional.

It's a combination of everything that goes into writing well, e.g. being good at spellings, the ability absorb new words & incorporate them [well] into your own writing, etc. He just doesn't have those aptitudes, not exceptionally anywya. His spelling is actually quite bad, the full marks in spelling tests, which he still gets, are imo the result of a different set of cognitive strengths, namely to quickly & effortlessly cram a bunch of stuff into his short term memory. Maybe he's a few very early steps down the path to having what we call 'dyslexia' - the relevant bits of his brain just aren't super sharp.

But he is very good at maths, still. And all of the VR/NVR type tests.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that his all-round skillset wasn't nearly apparent at age 4.