When do you know if your child is bright enough to get into a selective/very selective school?

[user1471592953]

Tried posting this in Primary, but didn’t get any responses.

When do you know if your child is bright enough to get into a selective school? I realise there are different thresholds for selection.

I’m asking because I have a DC in Reception who is reading okay, picking up numbers and counting okay and is writing okay. DC seems bright enough at learning but is equally interested in playing at this stage. DC is 4 and early Summer born.

There is nothing I can identify e.g. reading fluently or advanced in maths to show that DC may be bright enough to get into a selective school at, say, prep age. Does that mean DC isn’t, or true ability isn’t revealed yet?

We had hoped to send DC to an independent school for secondary but are thinking about a prep beforehand. But it is difficult to tell which prep to aim for at this stage due to lack of certainty about DC’s ability.

Hope this post makes sense and would be interested to hear thoughts/advice.

Thanks.

Once you have a couple of parents' evenings (and I would say once they have been back in at school if they are at home currently) you will get a feel at where they are in the cohort.

We moved DS to a prep at y3 (which was a school that went from 3-18) but we then also moved him again at y9 to a superselective.

A lot of kids do well at primary, even in year 6, but then start to plateau as the work gets harder. But how your DC is doing seems quite positive especially for a summer born Reception child as many do not start to engage properly when they are younger until later in the school year.

With ds2 it was obvious in reception that he was really able in terms of schoolwork (his reception teacher made me laugh by talking about "when A goes to university" and I was sitting there thinking, great but right now we're still working on tying shoelaces to this is probably a bit early to think about that). He doesn't attend a selective school for a multitude of reasons but sat and passed the assessment for those in the neighbouring borough.

My DS started at a selective school last September. He was the youngest in his year, very bright from an early age, lots of comments about how clever he was from other parents in Reception. He continued to be one of the top in his class but not always (which helped bring him down a peg or two) and passed the 11+ along with the some of his friends. I did look at smaller independents for him but he was happy at his state school.

Thanks for your comments.

In fairness to DC, the class teacher says DC is doing very well. It was made crystal clear to us (almost aggressively!) at the show round that the school does not support preparation for the 11+. I totally understand this but it has made me doubt whether I can even ask if she thinks DC would be capable of passing it! I’m not sure if any questions would be blocked.

I don’t know whether primary schools do testing that indicates whether children are more or less capable or whether they’re generally willing to discuss ability. I have heard of educational assessors but this seems a bit extreme if a teacher with lots of experience could provide a view. I will hope you’re right that parents’ evenings over the next year or two may shed more light.

Ps - yes, in England so currently at home.

Where they are in the cohort doesn't necessarily tell you much. When we lived in an area of high deprivation, my DD was a genius in reception. They had to differentiate for her separately. We moved house in her reception year to somewhere where most children had been read to, sang with, taught to count, etc. She's now a lot more average in her cohort.

Yes I agree Love51 re the different cohorts but the OP will have a handle on whether she is in a similar situation or in that MN famous "leafy" area to take a view.

My personal experience is that about 80% of the children on the 'top table' at infants ended up at the grammar school.

A couple of kids on the top table didn't make it, and a couple who were middling did.

So the infant teachers could probably predict with about 80% accuracy.

All 3 of mine are/were at selective secondary schools. With DS2 it was obvious from reception (if not before), with DS1 it became clear that it was an option from parents evenings throughout primary and with DD it was just hope.

It really depends on the child. With a summer born it might take longer to see.

Thank you OP for starting this thread I too am in a similar situation although I should be more aware as I also have a 12 year girl who attends a grammar school. My dilemma is my year 3 son who is an August born. I have no idea if he is capable or not. At his last parents evening his teacher told me he had a reading age of 10.5 year old. Is this a sign? He reads a lot at home. My advice to you would be that reception is too early to tell, my daughter was always bright but it wasn’t until she was in year 4 when her teacher suggested grammar during a parent teacher meeting. They both attended the same outstanding state school. I have virtual parents meeting tonight, is there anything that I could ask his teacher? Not sure if it’s too early for her to be able to tell especially with everything that’s going on

@Chewbecca

My personal experience is that about 80% of the children on the 'top table' at infants ended up at the grammar school.

A couple of kids on the top table didn't make it, and a couple who were middling did.

So the infant teachers could probably predict with about 80% accuracy.

That's quite interesting. From DS's top table at infants these are the uni destinations : Cambridge, LSE, Bristol, Durham, Durham, final one has gone direct into the army.

Thank you for your comments, everyone. Interesting to hear that some children’s ability only becomes clear age 7/8 upwards. In the meantime I will ask DC’s teachers for their views during future parents’ meetings.

The cohorts vary so much. Ours went to a supwr leafy cofe primary with outstanding results.

DS: the unacknowledged top of the class and flew into a London independent selective at 8. Got 44 IB point went to Oxford. He was the only one and one other did medicine.

DD: top "average", struggled to make top table but usually 2nd table despite reading before school like her brother. Massive dent to her confidence and she's the more fragile and sensitive child. She did go to a v good independent but not a superselective and had had huge confidence problems. She got 3 A*A'Levels dropping 6 UMS points. She is at a Cambridge with a predicted first.

11 children from her primary cohort went to Oxbridge or medicine!

Crikey op. Don't do that. In my experience state school teachers are very dismissive of performance and comparisons.

DD was never on the top table as far as I could tell. She was offered a place at Oxford. Of the cohort of 66, 3 were Oxbridge. I thought these DC were bright. One did maths at Cambridge but my DD was a linguist snd the school had no idea as no languages offered. 28/66 got to the local grammars in her year. A record. I know 3 went to Exeter but there were a few bright ones who no doubt went to top universities but we don’t know.

I thought she was top 10 in the cohort but she got 1 mark off top score in our county 11 plus so that was better than we thought. At no time did her infant or primary indicate she was bright. The junior also got DC to do the Richmond Test. Probably defunct now but she was off the scale on certain elements of that.

She went to a mildly selective independent boarding school at 11 and it was the best place for her. I would therefore plot your own route. You can change to prep at 7 plus. You can go to independent at 11 or prep at 11 and independent at 13. Traditional preps do go from 7-13. Work back from the type of senior school you want. Then find best fit prep to get DC where you think he should be. DD was very late summer born and was reading well before she left YR. But so were lots of others.

Forgot to say: DD was entirely state educated until 11. Just local infant and junior schools.

I think it depends - with dd we knew from about age 7 she was doing very well and was bright. Only by years 5-6 though did she really fly ahead and was getting bored in class due to not being stretched. She got into her chosen (extremely academic) school.

Ds was always bright and inquisitive but needed extra help with reading in year 2 to get up to scratch and wasn’t necessarily a super-academic type. However he started to really come on in leaps and bounds, again in years 5/6 and he passed all the entrance exams he sat. I was slightly surprised when he got into the top school though!

Cohorts vary massively. A friend of our's child is at outstanding state primary school in North London and much better reader than ' average' but due to the extremely affluent and we'll educated neighbourhood was on table 5 out of 6. He quickly lost confidence and interest in school...
Conversely we are in the sticks and our children are inevitably in the top 2 children in their state / prep school classes. They are bright but also the cohorts are alot less competitive.

My DD2 went to a prep “in the sticks” but girls got scholarships to Wycombe Abbey and Cheltenham Ladies College etc. Depends on who is attracted to the prep and for what reason. They vary considerably.

My dilemma is my year 3 son who is an August born. I have no idea if he is capable or not. At his last parents evening his teacher told me he had a reading age of 10.5 year old. Is this a sign?

Ha ha lol. Stealth boasting or piss taking at its finest. Could be either....hard to tell. Love this post :)

Missdotty could you please clarify as to why I am taking the piss? It is possible for a 7 year old to have a reading age of a 10.5 year old. You do realise what thread you’re on? I was asking for advice that’s all.

Sorry, sorry I read that as you had a three year old who had the reading age of a 10 year old and you were wondering if that was any good. Ironic really because my misunderstanding would indicate my reading age is probably not equal to that if your child...

Yes there are loads of mumsnetters who two year olds have read war and peace already. our 7 to has a reading age of 9 and our 10 yo has a reading age of 13. We were told this in the autumn report but still DC2 was described as working towards for English . Tbh it's all bullshit.

I can only give my own experience from my childhood. I was an early reader and taught myself to read. I didn't read Lolita and Crime and Punishment at 6, but I was reading Roald Dahl and Enid Blyton without help. I was dreadful at maths but that was possibly because we were not taught the stuff properly (pre national curriculum when schools were still in the experimental phase). My parents had no idea about private education and just assumed I, like my friends, would go to the local secondary school (I wanted to do that). My 3rd year juniors teacher used to give me different work to the rest of the class and one day when my mum picked me up, my teacher said she used to teach in the juniors at the local selective indie, and I was easily at the same level as the children there. My parents agreed to me having extra tuition from her in my lunch break and bringing past papers home. When I moved up into 4th year, the teacher there said she had only ever recommended one child to go to that school and I was doomed to fail, which made me more determined.

I passed the exam - got 98% on English, 95% on verbal reasoning, and about 25% on maths which was a miracle in itself as I had guessed at all the answers. My old teacher helped my parents apply for financial assistance and was generally a really good egg. She was bullied out of that primary school a couple of years later because her face didn't fit, but I will never forget her.

Missdotty 😂😂 sorry total misunderstanding 😂 I think I may have him assessed by an 11+ tutor when he is in year 4. Will they be able to tell me more than his teacher?