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Is demand for private schools falling in the long term?

102 replies

angrysquirrel73 · 09/11/2020 16:26

I am wondering whether the market for private education has shrunk since the 70s when I was child. I am guessing it has given the number of schools that have closed. I'm thinking that housing is now more expensive and people spend more on housing and extensions etc and have less to spend on private education?

I went to an all girls private school and since then the local private boys school also takes girls and my old school is not as academically selective as it was and does not do as well in the exams as it does.

I now also see this at my children's school. At the junior school it is academically non selective and there seems to be more emphasis on extra curricular than academics. Many parents seem more interested in extra curricular than academics. The local boys public school is now co-ed and I get the impression all of these schools are struggling to get 'bums on seats'.

We are outside of London and the home counties... I'm guessing its a different story in London...

OP posts:
Oohhhbetty · 31/03/2021 17:42

Prep school numbers marginally up throughout UK
Senior school numbers fairly significantly down

Leading to a 1% downturn overall for fee paying sector in UK

orangeorangery · 31/03/2021 18:53

Covid has meant more dc are joining my dd prep than not.
Smaller schools seem to have disappeared last year but as pp said they would disappear anyway.
My dd prep is a big one and when I compare her school to some of the top state schools that my friends dc attend, last year and this year, the provision during lockdown has been much much better I do wonder how many will stay long term though.
I will say though that foreign dc make up a large cohort at our school and certainly the number of chinese dc appears to have disappeared since last year.

Oohhhbetty · 31/03/2021 18:55

@orangeorangery your school seems to fit the National pattern - prep school numbers up, secondary down. Overall decline of 1% across all ages.

Coronateachingagain · 31/03/2021 21:46

Not all the London private preps seem to be full and I think there is an element of the Europeans leaving. Less seen in secondary as you may be committed to certain English education path, but if you have small children it is a lot easier to move out. So the top London preps will always be full of they want to, but the ones still very good but not super top, are not full, especially in the younger years below the bump demographic years.

sanam2019 · 31/03/2021 22:33

I think senior number schools down might be driven by boarding schools that rely on steady influx of students from Asia. I would expect those numbers to rise again next year. Definitely no dip in demand for London senior schools from what we can gather from all those 11+ threads.

LolaSmiles · 31/03/2021 22:39

Having previously been against private schools for a range of reasons, I'd now consider it for my DC based on my feelings about changes in the state sector. The fees stop us being able to.

With house prices typically requiring 2 working adults to buy, how many families have a spare £12,000 a year under the bed?

Kokeshi123 · 01/04/2021 07:09

In Scotland it hasn’t - you can thank for the Scottish government for that!

Frankly, I'd pay private school fees too if the Curriculum for (non) Excellence was the alternative! So that is no big surprise.

English schools have plenty of faults, but they appear to be better at nailing the academics than they were in the 1990s. Scotland seems to have gone the other way, sadly.

MarshaBradyo · 01/04/2021 07:30

@sanam2019

I think senior number schools down might be driven by boarding schools that rely on steady influx of students from Asia. I would expect those numbers to rise again next year. Definitely no dip in demand for London senior schools from what we can gather from all those 11+ threads.
I agree the feeling is 11plus independent in London has increased.

The schools indicated numbers were higher, but it’d be interesting to know if that’s the case.

WombatChocolate · 01/04/2021 13:27

The market is quite simply polarising. Covid is speeding up processes already underway. The basic trend is that a number of typically smaller schools (often Preps but not always) and especially those outside the south-east have been closing/merging and will continue to do so, whilst parts of the market (mostly larger, mixed and pretty selective in areas with lots of high earners) are doing well and consolidating their position in the market.

There have been too many small schools for too long. As people say, fees have gone up lots and also many state schools have improved. Outside of the south east and even within it, lots of smaller Preps just aren’t big enough to have the numbers to be able to then invest in their buildings and offer the specialist teaching and range of activities that people expect. Some of these keep going but lots look very tatty now because they haven’t been able to invest for years. Some have struggled as more senior schools have abandoned 13+ entry and there have been and will be lots more mergers of the small, family owned type Preps. The other schools which have seen mergers are girls schools. There clearly is still a market for girls schools but it’s smaller than it once was and again girls schools are often smaller and that makes it harder to survive.

In many areas outside the south east, lots of schools really are struggling. They have entrance exams to make themselves look selective and desirable, but many turn very few away. Many have their finances very finely balanced and that difference if 10 admissions can make a real difference. The question becomes what are people paying for. Some want academic selection, but in many areas outside the south east there really is a pretty wide range of ability as there just aren’t enough applicants to make those schools really selective. Some want social selection and extra curricular and ensuring their children learn with the right kind of children is more important than academic prowess. In reality those, most want at least a good level of academic success, especially if the fees are a stretch.

Big names in terms of academic success or the few who are genuinely well known without this seem to be doing well. London day schools have loads of applicants, but given many apply to 5 schools, it’s hard to always tell if they are as over-subscribed as they first look, when each child can only attend one school. But LOndon and the southeast have more high earning families to apply to the schools and this allows the schools to continue with a decent number of 800+ which can give them the cost advantages that smaller schools just cannot gain. These schools are often adding international schools or Prep schools to their ‘group’ and shoring up their positions. They are ensuring they have feeder schools which help fill senior places especially in hard times, plus international schools can also cross-subsidise after they are well established. So these schools are growing and becoming stronger and often more desirable against a backdrop of others struggling and dropping out or merging. It’s a typical competitive market where at the moment there are too many players and too many small players.

Boarding schools, especially the less academic and single sex and more rural will probably find the next few years hard. Covid has put paid to some of their international students for a while, plus the fees have meant more and more actually have pretty limited boarding and more day pupils now.

Signs of schools struggling are things like delapidated buildings, overly generous bursaries or scholarships to draw people in, leaving the teacher pension scheme (always check this as a a parent as schools which leave the scheme will struggle to recruit the top teachers without this very significant aspect of a teacher’s salary package) and year groups (often 6th Form) which are just very small and will make offering a full academic curriculum and decent sized classes hard. Small classes are good but they can be too small...you want your child to learn alongside a group of perhaps 6-8 at least to ensure good group discussion and a chance to bounce off each other. Lots of schools struggle to get classes of more than 2 in some subjects...clearly not very financially viable, never mind the learning implications.

Some people keep paying for the struggling schools. It’s for a variety of reasons. In smaller Preps there are often those who join mid-way through with SEN who have been a bit disenchanted with state provision or who feel their child needs a smaller, more nurturing environment. Often those people hadn’t intended to pay fees and don’t intend to into the senior phase. Others take the view that any fee paying schools is better than a state school. Totally working of course and so many people report amazing state primaries or Comps or Grammars which far exceed what lots of independents do...but these aren’t always easy to get into.

My projections for the next 10-15 years are that more and more Preps will drop running to 13 and just a small number who feed the 13+ boarding schools will remain. Small family Preps will merge and sometimes merge again or be taken over by senior schools and absorbed to become their junior schools. Some will simply close. A number of girls schools will close or merge. Fee increases will continue around the 3% mark and not return to the 8-10% seen about 10 years ago. Demand will remain high in London and the southeast with there being space for highly selective schools and also those not quite so selective as the market remains large, but even here some smaller Preps and girls schools could be in danger.

LolaSmiles · 01/04/2021 14:03

English schools have plenty of faults, but they appear to be better at nailing the academics than they were in the 1990s. Scotland seems to have gone the other way, sadly.
I don't know enough about the Scottish system to compare, but as a teacher in the English state system it's my experiences that would make me consider private for DC if I could afford it.

Dentistlakes · 01/04/2021 14:15

Not the case where I live, but our city is very unusual with a higher percentage of kids privately educated than elsewhere. Demand still seems high and places filled. I do think it makes better economic sense to buy property in a good catchment, but you don’t have a guarantee that catchment will stay good, but that can be said for private too.

mids2019 · 02/04/2021 11:35

Do you think increasing state proportions at elite universities is going to impact the number of private school applications?

There may be a fear that your child may be at a slight disadvantage of they are educated privately when it comes to universities.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 02/04/2021 11:47

Not in London. The state schools locally get better grades than the local private school which is mixed. It is a nice school but not worth paying for IMO. The children that have gone there are not the brightest.

burpees · 12/05/2021 07:35

This was today. Numbers of pupils down but the good news is fees are stabilising (presumably due to market forces - less people taking up places means they can’t charge so much)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/first-decline-in-private-school-pupils-for-ten-years-dm2zzk00x

Hoopa · 15/06/2021 09:10

www.ft.com/content/28ce1fb5-f1a3-4bfc-bed1-954172f7200c

This article today in Ft was startling - chair of bursar association said that 42 schools shut in 2020 compared to average of 6 in normal year. So many small schools must be hanging on by a thread.
I think the real change is Chinese boarders, the article talks about how put off Chinese families have been by the everyone’s invited website testimonies. But there will be buffering of coffers of the big school businesses by uptake in their Asian offshoots.

MrPickles73 · 15/06/2021 09:30

We went to a senior public school open day at the weekend. It is predominantly boarding. It was a very heavy sell on pastoral and boarding. No mention of academics or day pupils. Parents were dolled up to the nines (Chanel, Prada, stiletto heels etc) and the school was manicured to the nth degree. It felt like they were selling you a golf course or a cruise rather than an education? I'm thinking only the true 'rich' can afford the £37k per year and hence aren't too fussed about academics?
Its a real shame as the staff at our prep school work really hard and at £18k I would say its good value. But I guess there are enough right UK and foreign families to fill the senior schools.

MrPickles73 · 15/06/2021 09:36

Hoopa its certainly interesting what the uptake of these franchise schools will be. If it appears that the education is the same you can completely understand the temptation for the parents (esp with COVID) of attending the franchise school in their own country).

Hoopa · 15/06/2021 15:49

@MrPickles73 That sounds like a very un-british feeling public school - they seem to be getting more and more Americanised by the minute. In my day the more shabbily you were dressed and the more ancient your car the better!
This was food for thought today - a Tory MP speaking up about the Schools Week report that 8 times as many girls reported sexual harassment claims at Indies than at state schools - no wonder that is putting off Chinese parents who are looking at the site.

www.standard.co.uk/news/education/everyones-invited-more-private-schools-listed-site-david-johnston-mp-b940736.html

Rolloutthebarrel · 15/06/2021 21:14

[quote Hoopa]@MrPickles73 That sounds like a very un-british feeling public school - they seem to be getting more and more Americanised by the minute. In my day the more shabbily you were dressed and the more ancient your car the better!
This was food for thought today - a Tory MP speaking up about the Schools Week report that 8 times as many girls reported sexual harassment claims at Indies than at state schools - no wonder that is putting off Chinese parents who are looking at the site.

www.standard.co.uk/news/education/everyones-invited-more-private-schools-listed-site-david-johnston-mp-b940736.html[/quote]
I can totally see how many more girls at independent schools have reported compared to state schools. I work sometimes at an inner city comprehensive in London. The girls held a protest yesterday about sexual harassment and the everyone’s invited website. I talked to some of them and they had genuinely only just heard of it.
It totally spread initially amongst the London private schools and then they started to make all the postings anonymous so of course it looks like there are lots more posts from independent schools.

Eyestotheright · 15/06/2021 21:18

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

Not in London. The state schools locally get better grades than the local private school which is mixed. It is a nice school but not worth paying for IMO. The children that have gone there are not the brightest.
Posts like this are so nastily passive aggressive. I think that some children go there not because they want an academic hothouse but because they need a bit of extra help.
Hoopa · 15/06/2021 21:32

@Rolloutthebarrel that is very unusual, most state educated teens I speak to knew all the detail about everyone’s invited 2 months ago from tik tok, Instagram and their parents talking about what they had read in the mainstream media, Evening standard etc. It lead to a rash of reporting at my DD’s comp in April / May which was all instantly handled, no brushing under the carpet there!

Rolloutthebarrel · 15/06/2021 21:36

I was surprised but only work there occasionally so can’t comment on it any further. My DCs go to independent schools that were heavily mentioned at first. Absolutely no brushing under the carpet either - I’m really impressed with how they both handled it and are continuing to do so. Hopefully some good will come out of it all.

Empressofthemundane · 15/06/2021 21:40

I think it will be hard for private secondaries to survive.

There is a perception that children coming out of private schools have a handicap for getting into elite universities.

Why would parents pay for the privilege of making life harder for their children? Better to save the money or spend it on things the whole family can enjoy. Just top up school with a bit of private tutoring.

Smartiepants79 · 15/06/2021 21:42

Fees have have not risen exponentially or out of line with wages in my experience.
I’m 40. Both my sister and I were at private school from the age of 8. My mum has always said that our fees were approximately 90% of her full time teacher wages.
I’m a teacher in similar circumstances to my mum. My full time wages would be about £36 000 a year. The fees that we will pay for both our girls will be about £26 000 for the year. That is actually proportionally less.
The private schools near us have waiting lists and more applicants than spaces.

SouthLondonMommy · 16/06/2021 07:51

I don't think there is a disadvantage applying from private school to elite universities. There has historically been a disproportionate advantage-- i.e. private school pupils got more than their fair share of places at Oxbridge compared to the proportion of state pupils with similar grades.

The current rebalancing is removing that historic (unfair) advantage but its not harder to get into an elite university from a top private school than from a leafy state school if you achieve the same grades.

In London the top schools are doing fine. With so many people leaving the city due to covid though some of the less elite schools are struggling for numbers.