Fair Treatment of Kent and Medway Test 11+ Results

[KentTestConcerned]

Due to the exceptional circumstances of the Coronavirus Pandemic, the Kent and Medway tests were later than normal this year.

Medway extended its deadline for submitting school preferences to 30/Nov, so parents would know their results before choosing schools, but Kent didn't - their cut off date is 2/Nov, but their results dont come out until 26/Nov.
This means that you have to hedge your bets and apply blind to Kent schools this year.

In an email exchange with KCC, they have revealed to me that you can CHANGE your school preferences after their "deadline" and up to 11/Dec (two weeks after their "deadline") by emailing [email protected]. This means that you CAN make an INFORMED school choice, knowing the 11+ results for your child.

Most parents will be blissfully unaware of this, as it is outside of the normal system, and not mentioned on their website.

If the real deadline is 11/Dec, why dont KCC come clean and publicise this to ALL parents ?

Because in most cases it shouldn't make any difference. The equal preference system means that children aren't disadvantaged by naming grammar schools first followed by non-grammars in case their child doesn't pass. It should only make a difference if you unusually have more than 6 schools that you're realistically likely to get a place at. Advertising the fact that parents can amend their preferences actually undermines the message KCC are trying to promote which is that parents should have faith in the equal preference system. It will rarely be necessary to change your preferences.

Kent have actually expanded the number of schools parents can apply for this year, from 4 to 6, to explicitly alleviate this; to enable parents to put down both the preferred grammars but also preferred local secondaries. This seems to be a good solution, without getting into encouraging people to change their preferences. The equal preference system means there is no disadvantage to parents who place a grammar school at the top of their lists but then fail to get in.

In fact, if parents know their child has just failed but want to appeal, they need to keep the school on their application form anyway. You can't appeal a school you haven't applied for.

And the admissions booklet for Kent actually explicitly says -

"Whilst the closing date for Kent County Council to receive applications is Monday 2 November 2020, applications which are submitted no later than Friday 11 December 2020 for a good reason will be treated as “on time” if it is reasonably practicable to accept them."

Pretty clear.

Well I had no idea about this and my daughters score would affect my preference order as we have grammars from two different areas on our form.
Thank you for making me aware of this.

Beckymum would you really change your preference order based on scores on the day? Any child can have a particularly great or bad day, so I wouldn't base my opinion about school suitability based on one test. Obviously her ability to get a place might depend on her score, but the equal preference system allows for that (ie you put the 'harder' school first if that's the one you prefer, then the 'easier' one second). Maybe I'm misunderstanding your situation though.

Most parents will be blissfully unaware of this, as it is outside of the normal system, and not mentioned on their website.

If the real deadline is 11/Dec, why dont KCC come clean and publicise this to ALL parents?

Fully aware of this as was sent a message through the primary school outlining everything so maybe check whether your primary school has failed to pass the communication on. The real deadline is the 2nd November to apply. You can change your preferences after this date but if you apply after this date then your application could be considered late so please be really careful in your wording.

I honestly can't see many cases where this would make much difference anyway. Do you actually have more than six schools which you want your child to go to? Or five plus a banker non selective? Just fill in the form in an honest way with your dc's true preference. Even if you have some super selectives on there do you not have a sense of whether they would do better in one school than another? I know it is tricky this year not being able to go around but the 11 plus is just a snap shot of their performance on a day just because a child got the score for a super selective it doesn't mean that they will be happy there. If your child might fall short of the grade for a grammar school, but you truly believe that they would do best in a grammar environment then you still need to put that school on the list if you want to appeal to it.

I think that they have stuck with the deadline because for the vast majority of children, even those who fail the test or those who do better than expected there will be no need to change their order of preference of school. That extra month means that they can start processing applications, sorting the rankings for non- grammar schools etc.

Obviously it might be different if you were planning for your child to take numerous tests and then move to wherever they passed in the two weeks between the results and applications closing, but that has always been slightly dodgy ethically.

I'm really angry. I had no idea about this.
Why havent Kent Council emailed parents like they did to confirm the registration and the test, or written to us ?

On the kent website it says that ALL parents have to apply by 2nd of November WOTHOUT knowing theirs dc's results.
Now it seems a select few have been told something to advantage their own children.

Thank you for posting this.

Why isn't it out on Twitter and Facebook ?

Because, as several people have commented above, it's really not an advantage except in unusual circumstances. In most cases, 6 choices under an equal preference system is perfectly adequate to cover the necessary bases. The ability to amend applications is irrelevant to most applicants - and those who do have unusual circumstances can read the KCC guide, which does talk about it. And FWIW it's not new - there is a later 'amendment' deadline every year (largely to cater for house moves). The last thing KCC want is to a) create a load of additional pointless work for themselves and b) undermine their own system by making parents think this is a relevant option for lots of people.

(For a RL example - I will be naming the three local grammars first, followed by one church school which I'm unlikely to get, followed by another church school which I'm pretty likely to get, followed by a non-church school which I'm pretty much guaranteed to get as it hasn't been full in years. If DC failed the 11+ I may still keep the grammars in the list in order to appeal, but even if I didn't, the only schools I could really add would be oversubscribed schools miles away which I haven't got a hope in hell of getting (and would struggle to get DC to anyway), or additional undersubscribed schools which are no better than the banker I've already got, plus they're further away. Of course everyone is in a different situation - but very few people would really benefit from changing their preferences after results. It just psychologically feels like that, particularly if parents don't understand the preference system.)

@krds2

I'm really angry. I had no idea about this. Why havent Kent Council emailed parents like they did to confirm the registration and the test, or written to us ?

On the kent website it says that ALL parents have to apply by 2nd of November WOTHOUT knowing theirs dc's results.
Now it seems a select few have been told something to advantage their own children.

Thank you for posting this.

Why isn't it out on Twitter and Facebook ?

But you MUST apply by 2nd November, it is not an advantage to know that you can change it unless you are really not sure about your order of preference so for most people it will make no difference at all.

In fact most people are better off than previous years because using mini ferroussun as an example if s/he didn't pass in previous non covid years they would only have four choices but if you want to appeal the school needs to be on the form. If s/he wanted to appeal to all three grammars on the form that would only leave one non grammar choice so ferroussun would have to choose between moonshot Church school, other probable Church school and not great but ok school for the fourth place.

I tend to agree that it is only if you don't understand/believe the preference system that this is a big issue. Honestly for 99.9% you should just list in your true preference and forget about it.

The only circumstances that someone would want to change are either if your child fails and you decide not to appeal and there are five non grammar schools which you would rather go to than your banker school, or if your child has said that they don't want to go to a superselective but then unexpectedly get a really high mark and you truly think that they would be better at a superselective school. Generally though I think if the child didn't have the confidence to believe they could get into a superselective school then you might question if a superselective would be sufficiently nurturing.

We live centrally and we are surrounded by good grammar schools. My son sat the kent test and I hope he will pass, but I had to include grammar and non grammar schools on the preference form in case he didn’t because we wouldnt know his results in time.

With this news, ive now been able to change to all grammars and get rid of all the others.

If he passes I get the best spread of applications. All of the grammar schools get oversubscribed, so I will also get the best chances of appeals and I don’t want to waste an application on a non grammar if he is entitled to go to grammar.

If it turns out he doesnt pass, I will change the complete preference list to all non selective schools. The best non selective schools in range are also all over subscribed and I just will not let him go to the local non selective school which just isnt suitable for him so I need the maximum number of good non selective schools in my list. I wouldnt waste an application on a grammar if I know hes not entitled to go.

TW013 Its not What You Know, its Who You Know, that matters.
its just that who you know tell you what you know .. that matters.

How come your school got to know about this ?

It was just a presentation sent around by kcc. Just a normal state primary, they passed it on. Maybe other schools haven't passed it on.

Will this apply to people who are in another area and out of typical catchments?

@TW2013

It was just a presentation sent around by kcc. Just a normal state primary, they passed it on. Maybe other schools haven't passed it on.

Do you have a copy of the presentation ?

To be honest krds2 I would email KCC for confirmation. I am not sure how to send files on MN and if you needed it for an appeal you wouldn't want to rely on some file that a random on the Internet sent you! You might persuade them of the value of updating the website then you can screenshot it.

zeebree you would need to check with your LEA what their policy is on ammendments. KCC do say on their application booklet that they accept ammendments until the 11th Dec though it mainly focuses on house moves. I guess it depends if your LEA has a similar policy.

Well Im disgusted. It should be shown to everyone or not at all. It simply isnt fair to show it to a selective few. Perhaps thats what "selective" means to them.

Krds2 I honestly don't think it is some intentional plan, it was probably just something which either my school requested from KCC or more likely was sent to all primary schools and was only passed on by a few schools to the parents. I imagine your school is on half term but I would just email kcc on Monday for clarification.

It would be lovely to think that my DC was special to someone other than me but I am sure it is just a communication error at some stage. As I have explained upthread our preference list remains the same regardless of the outcome of the test. If they are not assessed suitable then we would appeal as we and the primary school think that Grammar would be the best place, so it still needs to be top of the form. If not then the banker school it is which is somewhere we would also be happy with.

It is really stressful waiting for the results, I have been through it before and in this hinterland you search for anything to focus on to distract you from the waiting. I am sure kcc will be able to clarify the situation on Monday and you still have plenty of time to submit before the 2nd. Hope it goes well for you.

It's in the application handbook, available on Kent's website and that everyone applying should have read before application.

It's not being hidden.

Our daughter is at a Kent school and registered for the Kent, the Medway and the Bexley tests (two down, one to go !).

Bexley have 6 preference options and Medway increased theirs from 4 to 6, so I don’t think Kent have done anything exceptional there.

The awkward thing is having to name schools by Kent’s closing date next Monday – which is before the results from any of the tests, not just Kent’s own.

Now we can put something in this week, and change which schools to apply to when we know all of all of the test results, which is a great relief. We have enough stress with coronavirus and lockdowns and I wish I’d known before.

This is why Kent write a guide (which is bloody long). Because so much of what it covers is only relevant to a minority of people. If they emailed everybody about how to amend preferences if you've got six grammars within easy reach, or what to do if you're moving house, or what to do if you own two houses, or what to do if you're returning from overseas, then people would be bombarded with information. And can we not blame primary schools either? Yes, they can offer help - but it is parents' responsibility to research secondary applications - not the primary school's (particularly with regard to the Kent Test, which is totally parental choice and has basically nothing to do with primary schools). KCC make all the information very easily available on their website and will also happily talk to you on the phone if you want.

We downloaded a copy of the admissions booklet and we try to pore over everything diligently as it’s such an important life chance.

The link to the (pdf) document is here: www.kent.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/17930/Secondary-admissions-booklet-all-areas.pdf

or you can go to the www.Kent.gov.uk website and search for “apply for secondary school”, click on “secondary school places”, then click on the “Choose a school” tab (and it’s at the bottom).

On page 6, there is a Key Dates section, which clearly states: “Monday
2 November 2020 Online application process closes for the main round. Any amendments after this date must be emailed to [email protected] ”

I’ve also found this raised on the Kent Independent Advice website:
www.kentadvice.co.uk/peters-blog/news-a-comments/item/1337-late-changes-to-secondary-admission-applications-kent-and-medway.html

They have a copy of something else that was sent to schools but meant to be for parents. It is not be the presentation that others have mentioned. This one is a pdf. I didn’t get either one.

There is no issue date on it, but it refers to the Admissions Booklet, so it must supersede it, and describes the changes due to Covid-19 this year. It makes it clear that you can change your preferences because of the Kent Test results.

The key bit seems to be on page 5:

“Extended deadline – Friday 11 December
The closing date for applications is Monday 2nd November. This is a deadline that is set in legislation, however KCC allows parents to make changes to their application up until Friday 11th December. That means even with Kent Test results being available later this year parents
still have the opportunity to change their preferences.

This includes changing school preferences (to accommodate for the results of the Kent Test) along with any address changes etc.

Parents must email [email protected] with the details of any changes, ensuring that they contact us with the same email address used for their application.”

2plus2makesfun the documents linked to on that site is the one we were sent.

@2plus2makesfun

I’ve also found this raised on the Kent Independent Advice website: www.kentadvice.co.uk/peters-blog/news-a-comments/item/1337-late-changes-to-secondary-admission-applications-kent-and-medway.html

They have a copy of something else that was sent to schools but meant to be for parents. It is not be the presentation that others have mentioned. This one is a pdf. I didn’t get either one.

There is no issue date on it, but it refers to the Admissions Booklet, so it must supersede it, and describes the changes due to Covid-19 this year. It makes it clear that you can change your preferences because of the Kent Test results.

The key bit seems to be on page 5:

“Extended deadline – Friday 11 December
The closing date for applications is Monday 2nd November. This is a deadline that is set in legislation, however KCC allows parents to make changes to their application up until Friday 11th December. That means even with Kent Test results being available later this year parents
still have the opportunity to change their preferences.

This includes changing school preferences (to accommodate for the results of the Kent Test) along with any address changes etc.

Parents must email [email protected] with the details of any changes, ensuring that they contact us with the same email address used for their application.”

Thanks ! I haven't had anything like that.

Will download and pore !

@2plus2makesfun

I’ve also found this raised on the Kent Independent Advice website: www.kentadvice.co.uk/peters-blog/news-a-comments/item/1337-late-changes-to-secondary-admission-applications-kent-and-medway.html

They have a copy of something else that was sent to schools but meant to be for parents. It is not be the presentation that others have mentioned. This one is a pdf. I didn’t get either one.

There is no issue date on it, but it refers to the Admissions Booklet, so it must supersede it, and describes the changes due to Covid-19 this year. It makes it clear that you can change your preferences because of the Kent Test results.

The key bit seems to be on page 5:

“Extended deadline – Friday 11 December
The closing date for applications is Monday 2nd November. This is a deadline that is set in legislation, however KCC allows parents to make changes to their application up until Friday 11th December. That means even with Kent Test results being available later this year parents
still have the opportunity to change their preferences.

This includes changing school preferences (to accommodate for the results of the Kent Test) along with any address changes etc.

Parents must email [email protected] with the details of any changes, ensuring that they contact us with the same email address used for their application.”

Another thing we werent told !

The last line says it all: 'Parents must email [email protected] with the details of any changes, ensuring that they contact us with the same email address used for their application.'

It proves they have our emails to compare with and if they wanted to send this to parents they could have