Fair Treatment of Kent and Medway Test 11+ Results

[KentTestConcerned]

Due to the exceptional circumstances of the Coronavirus Pandemic, the Kent and Medway tests were later than normal this year.

Medway extended its deadline for submitting school preferences to 30/Nov, so parents would know their results before choosing schools, but Kent didn't - their cut off date is 2/Nov, but their results dont come out until 26/Nov.
This means that you have to hedge your bets and apply blind to Kent schools this year.

In an email exchange with KCC, they have revealed to me that you can CHANGE your school preferences after their "deadline" and up to 11/Dec (two weeks after their "deadline") by emailing [email protected]. This means that you CAN make an INFORMED school choice, knowing the 11+ results for your child.

Most parents will be blissfully unaware of this, as it is outside of the normal system, and not mentioned on their website.

If the real deadline is 11/Dec, why dont KCC come clean and publicise this to ALL parents ?

But it's not their job to email you! They put all the information on their website - like any organisation does. Presumably you've been on the website because that's where you go to apply for a secondary place or register for the Kent Test (and they'd only have your email address once you've done that). It's perfectly reasonable to assume that if parents want the detailed information, they'll read the user guide. And if they don't, then the basic information is very clear without reading the guide (ie here's the application form, the deadline's 2nd Nov, off you go). They actually have to be quite careful about how they communicate the extended deadline info - if it's just a short email then there's a risk people might not understand it. For example, that you shouldn't remove grammar schools after your child fails the 11+ if there's a chance you want to appeal. And what happens with SIFs, actually? If you decide to include a faith school post-deadline, is the deadline for the SIF also extended? Don't know the answer to that one.

The faith schools I am aware of the deadline is 31st October. Not sure what the position would be if SIF was received without an application through KCC. They do tend to emphasise that both must be completed. Faith schools are often their own admission authorities so can stick to their procedures, they often don't have any great enthusiasm for supporting grammar school applications. I would certainly make sure the SIF was in.

Absolutely, and that's my point. If KCC start putting out the message that 11th December is the 'real' deadline then I can easily see people misunderstanding that communication and thinking they can just add a faith school after 11+ results have come out - only to find out that if they've missed the SIF deadline they won't stand much chance of getting a place.

@ferroussun

But it's not their job to email you! They put all the information on their website - like any organisation does. Presumably you've been on the website because that's where you go to apply for a secondary place or register for the Kent Test (and they'd only have your email address once you've done that). It's perfectly reasonable to assume that if parents want the detailed information, they'll read the user guide. And if they don't, then the basic information is very clear without reading the guide (ie here's the application form, the deadline's 2nd Nov, off you go). They actually have to be quite careful about how they communicate the extended deadline info - if it's just a short email then there's a risk people might not understand it. For example, that you shouldn't remove grammar schools after your child fails the 11+ if there's a chance you want to appeal. And what happens with SIFs, actually? If you decide to include a faith school post-deadline, is the deadline for the SIF also extended? Don't know the answer to that one.

Thats just the point. Go and look at the website. The latest information is not on there. Its exactly what everyone is complaining about.

It seems that the presentation is a supplement to the main booklet, with very important information in it that isn't available anywhere else, so either the booklet on the Kent.gov website is out of date and should be replaced with an up to date copy, or the supplement should be available on the website and highlighted as new

But it is in the main booklet! The booklet that every parent applying for a place should have read.

Page 11.

"Whilst the closing date for Kent County Council to receive applications is Monday 2 November 2020, applications which are submitted no later than Friday 11 December 2020 for a good reason will be treated as “on time” if it is reasonably practicable to accept them"

https://www.kent.gov.uk/data/assets/pdff_file/0020/17930/Secondary-admissions-booklet-all-areas.pdf

That sounds like for being late to put your preferences in.
The brown supplement is very clear and has a Key Dates section clearly laid out that isn't anywhere else. Get your preferences in by November 2nd and then you have until December 11th to change them by email if you need to.

You seem to be defending everything that KCC have done and not at all happy that parents now know this information.

I couldn't care less, I don't live in Kent, nor do I have children doing the 11+, nor do I have connection to Kent LA.

I do, however, sit on schools appeals panels for another county, and every year we get people who don't bother to read applications, or forms, and are aghast when they don't get their choices when a simple bit of research would have shown their choices were completely impractical. So it's very frustrating when it appears that people don't read the booklets that LAs spend hours putting together!

So if you've nothing to do with kent, why are you on here trying to influence kent parents ?

What possible objection can you have to parents knowing more up-to-date information ?

??? I'm not. Nothing I have written can possibly be construed as a attempt to influence anyone. I'm merely pointing out that this information is not and never has been hidden. I have no idea why people seem to think there is any sort of conspiracy!

@PatriciaHolm

I couldn't care less, I don't live in Kent, nor do I have children doing the 11+, nor do I have connection to Kent LA.

I do, however, sit on schools appeals panels for another county, and every year we get people who don't bother to read applications, or forms, and are aghast when they don't get their choices when a simple bit of research would have shown their choices were completely impractical. So it's very frustrating when it appears that people don't read the booklets that LAs spend hours putting together!

Well, we DO care, we DO live in Kent and we DO have children doing the 11+.

No-one suggested you having a connection to Kent LA until you brought it up yourself.

And how dare you demean Kent Parents by suggesting we don’t “do a simple bit of research” or “cant bother” or “don’t read the booklets”.

We HAVE read the admissions document – all 47 pages of it and we HAVE read the supplement – all 9 pages of it – because, unlike someone who couldn’t care less, we DO care very very much.

We hadn’t seen the supplement before, and only came to know of its existence on MN, although we are told on the Kent Independent Advice website that it was emailed by KCC to Kent Primary schools for headteachers to advise parents. That clearly hasn’t happened, and it would have been much better for KCC to have emailed it directly to everyone registered - or at least update their own website with it.

It has information in it that is not in the basic admissions document that you are relying solely upon, so you don’t really know what you are talking about.

Have you noticed that there are 3 or 4 posters on this thread who always criticise the release of this great news, always defend whatever kcc have done, object to letting parents know, and always try to get the last word ?

I think there are a few kcc plants on here, defending them tooth and nail

Krds2 with all due respect I think that you are letting the stress of waiting for the results get to you and you are taking it out through the keyboard. I certainly have no links with KCC.

I recommend that you take up these issues with KCC when they open this morning, and with your dc's primary school who presumably either were left off KCC's mailing list or failed to pass the message on to you. Maybe you can come back and update the thread. For what is is worth I agree that the additional info could be put on the website. I agree that this year's children have been disadvantaged through not being able to attend open days where some information such as SIFs is discussed.

I do however think that for many children (and I understand that yours is not one of them), that there will not be a great need to change their forms. For my child if they do not reach the required grade we do intend to appeal, as we believe that a grammar school would be the best environment and by taking off the grammar schools we would be closing, or at least delaying detrimentally that course of action (late appeals are even harder to win as the school is even more overcrowded). Do consider that when making any changes.

Hopefully for all of us the wait will be over soon and we will get the results we want. Happy with my last word?

On the first 'key dates' page of the main booklet it gives the 2 Nov date and then says 'any amendments after this date must be emailed to...'. (For the record I'm not a KCC plant and I do have a child sitting the KT and applying for secondary school this year.) I don't think for a second that KCC are trying to hide this information. However, I do think they will probably want to avoid encouraging parents to pointlessly change their applications in large numbers, possibly compromising their capacity to provide a late amendment deadline, and risking some parents inadvertently messing up their application by eg removing a school they later want to appeal for.

Blimey. Quite pleased we never bothered with any sort of 11+, if this is the stress it causes.

Good luck to all your children.

@2plus2makesfun

I’ve also found this raised on the Kent Independent Advice website: www.kentadvice.co.uk/peters-blog/news-a-comments/item/1337-late-changes-to-secondary-admission-applications-kent-and-medway.html

They have a copy of something else that was sent to schools but meant to be for parents. It is not be the presentation that others have mentioned. This one is a pdf. I didn’t get either one.

There is no issue date on it, but it refers to the Admissions Booklet, so it must supersede it, and describes the changes due to Covid-19 this year. It makes it clear that you can change your preferences because of the Kent Test results.

The key bit seems to be on page 5:

“Extended deadline – Friday 11 December
The closing date for applications is Monday 2nd November. This is a deadline that is set in legislation, however KCC allows parents to make changes to their application up until Friday 11th December. That means even with Kent Test results being available later this year parents
still have the opportunity to change their preferences.

This includes changing school preferences (to accommodate for the results of the Kent Test) along with any address changes etc.

Parents must email [email protected] with the details of any changes, ensuring that they contact us with the same email address used for their application.”

OK, we’ve pored, as promised, and I hope this calms things down. Please don’t troll me if you disagree, but you are entitled to express your own opinions. This is our analysis:

The main document published by KCC is the 47 page “Admission to Secondary school in Kent 2021”. Some people have called it the main or basic document. We call it the pink book because of the pinky-purple colour scheme.

The supplement published by KCC is the 9 page “Admission to Secondary school in Kent 2021” (same title). Some people have called it the presentation or the supplement. We call it the brown supplement because of its colour scheme.

The pink book was published first and aims to cover “everything”, and the brown supplement is more recent and is themed “what has changed ?”.

The pink book now needs to be read in conjunction with the brown supplement, as the latter has a modified “Key Dates” page, and a whole page dedicated to “Extended deadline – Friday 11 December”. The pink book has not been updated or republished.

This year, the Kent Test was postponed by over a month due to coronavirus. The rest of the pre-covid planned dates have not been changed, except the results date and the new “deadline for any changes to applications” of Friday 11th December.

In normal years, preferences would be entered after the Kent Test results are known but, even so, there is an additional time allowed for “late” preferences to be registered by email, for exceptional circumstances such as house moves into a different catchment area, where evidence of exchange of contracts must be produced to justify the late change.

This year, it is that mechanism which is being used to allow all parents to be able to change their preferences after the November 2nd SCAT cut off date, with no evidential reason needed, other than the results of the Kent Test on November 26th. “To accommodate for the results of the Kent Test” is the explicit reason stated in the brown supplement.

My understanding is that you must still get your online SCAT in by November 2nd (that’s the Monday immediately after half term).
If you email preference changes after November 26th and December 11th your email will be matched to the email on your Kent Test registration to verify who you are.

That’s it. I’ve tried to avoid being judgemental or controversial.

I’m sorry it’s so long. I hope it helps.

There you go, it just goes to show we all make mistakes and omissions.

The last paragraph should read:

"If you email preference changes after November 26th and [BEFORE] December 11th your email will be matched to the email on your Kent Test registration to verify who you are"

Super super helpful chocolatecakes

I need to check with my council because my child is out of area!

@ChocolateCupCakes

There you go, it just goes to show we all make mistakes and omissions.

The last paragraph should read:

"If you email preference changes after November 26th and [BEFORE] December 11th your email will be matched to the email on your Kent Test registration to verify who you are"

Oh dear. It's been pointed out that SCAT is badger poo !

I did, of course, mean SCAF (Secondary Common Application Form)

I guess that is my "number two" mistake

Thank you for your positive post. You're an example to us all that its never too late to fess up and put right our own mistakes !

Thanks chocolatecupcakes. Out of interest, where did you find the brown supplement? I couldn't see it yesterday on the KCC page. I'll try to track it down, but do you know if it says anything about late submission of SIFs? I'd be a bit concerned that parents might only get half the message and end up not being able to add the schools they want to later (or at least, not have a chance of a place if they're only considered on distance rather than faith or PP or whatever).

It is on the Kentadvice.co.uk site linked to by cupcakes above. I am generally concerned about the lack of awareness of SIFs among parents I know of school applicants this year. Whilst I am sure those who have been strategically flower arranging for the vicar for the past two years are well aware, amongst other parents, especially those from other countries there is a lack of awareness. With full school open events a form would have been thrust into their hands whereas this year they have had to find it on websites. Whilst I acknowledge that this is the parent's responsibility I don't think such confusion it is helpful in the context of reducing educational inequalities.

Regular poster but name changed for this as it's a small world. I work in a Kent primary school and all admissions emails come direct to me. We have not been sent this supplementary document. I'm going to be contacting KCC today to see if this is something they're wanting to be made available to parents, and if so why it doesn't even seem to be on their website.

Here is the link to the KCC Admission to Secondary school in Kent 2021 “brown supplement” for everybody
www.kentadvice.co.uk/images/kentadvice/documents/Admission%20to%20secondary%20school%20in%20Kent%202021.pdf

[quote 2plus2makesfun]Here is the link to the KCC Admission to Secondary school in Kent 2021 “brown supplement” for everybody
www.kentadvice.co.uk/images/kentadvice/documents/Admission%20to%20secondary%20school%20in%20Kent%202021.pdf[/quote]
Thanks for this. But why isn't it on the KCC website? This is really clear, it should be there front and centre, not tucked away somewhere.

But why isn't it on the KCC website? This is really clear, it should be there front and centre, not tucked away somewhere.

Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing?

Kentadvice.co.uk isn't part of KCC. It seems as if it was just a memo sent to (some) primary schools to pass on to parents and one of the schools has passed it on to Kentadvice.co.uk. I can see why they might have wanted to send it via primary schools as some parents will have registered a long time ago and wouldn't necessarily look on the website again until offer day, however they should have it there too.