Tiffin schools - which primary schools??

[Noconceptofnormal]

I'm wondering if someone can help me with some local knowledge?

I am looking to move to the Kingston area and am wondering which state primaries have good results in getting kids into the Tiffin boys' and girls' schools?

I know we'll need a tutor and they'll need to be very bright but I need to start somewhere!

I have 3 children aged 1, 2 and 5, and currently live in Surrey but regret leaving London. The move would be primarily to secure some options for secondary grammar schools.

Just to also say, my eldest has already started school but I could afford to put her in a private school if the state schools in the area are full. I just can't do it for all three.

If your attitude is Tiffin or bust, then make sure you are in the inner area for Tiffin Girls' admissions. These are:

Berrylands
Beverley
Canbury
Coombe Hill
Coombe Vale
Grove
Norbiton
St Mark's
Tudor
Ham, Petersham and Richmond Riverside

If you can't afford private school for all your children, then you will want a decent secondary school because you can't put all your eggs in the Tiffin basket. So look to see where in that area you would get into a secondary school you would be happy with and work from there. No primary school will be preparing your child for Tiffin, those that have a number of children who get there just have more parents who are paying for tutors (on that basis I would suggest St Andrews and St Marks in Surbiton, since lots of parents seem to want to swerve Hollyfield if they can).

Personally I would avoid all of this and move into the area of one of the feeder schools for Hinchley Wood secondary and still be in the Designated Area for Tiffin Girls although not the Inner Area, but if you are saying you don't want to live in Surrey you may not like it.

PS - it's a long time before any of your children will need secondary so admissions criteria and schools may change.

From what I've seen a 2-3 boys from each of our local state primaries in Twickenham gets in to Tiffin each year. The three boys who got in from my DS's year weren't tutored at all - but that was the year they changed the exams to put more emphasis on English & Maths rather than VR/NVR, which definitely went in their favour ... the old style tests were nothing more than a cash cow for tutors.

Personally I think if your kids aren't bright enough to get in without tutoring then they don't deserve to be there and may well struggle when they get there.

Thanks golf and craddy, that is helpful!

golf I'll look at Hinchley Wood and the area around it, yes it's Surrey but it's definitely less rural than I am now, it might be ok.

I'll also look into those schools in Surbiton, thanks.

craddy, which primary schools do you think I should be looking at in Twickenham? Thanks!

Yes agree with your point about being tutored to death, they won't survive once they're there,so I wouldn't do that.

My situation is that I can afford private secondary for one, or two at a push but three would be too much. I'm hoping one (or if I'm lucky two) of them might be bright enough to get in, or at least if not I've given it the best shot.

It doesn't have to be Tiffin, but I'm just trying to find an area that I'd like to live where there's also an option of a good grammar school (s).

Thanks again.

Just realised St Andrews and St Marks is one school!

Have you looked at Sutton too. Excellent primaries and several grammar schools plus outstanding state comprehensives as well.

Thanks Fennel I will look into Sutton, I had heard that that area of Surrey had better options for grammar schools than where I am.

Ideally I'd like to move back to London but having had a quick look at Sutton I'd definitely get more fir my money!

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/

That’s where you can compare schools. State schools don’t prepare for 11+ so you’ll need to do that yourself or use a tutor/tuition centre. If you want an academic primary, pick one that has high numbers achieving higher standard at SATs.

Sutton is in London, zone 5 with multiple train lines and a short bus ride to the tube.

Thanks JoJo, yes I wouldn't expect a state school to prep for the 11+ but even so I was wondering whether there were certain primary schools parents aimed for in the area, I'm just trying to work out where I need to be buying a house near and what I can afford.

As long as it’s a high achieving primary, there will be quite a few pupils working/being taught to a high standard and you’ll have quite a few sitting the 11+.

It’s worth bearing in mind, that the Tiffins are the hardest to get into as there are just 2 of them. Sutton grammars are easier for catchment applicants but still only a minority of clever and well prepped applicants secure a place. I’d say the key is to choose a location with a good plan B. Twickenham, Teddington, New Malden, Sutton/Cheam all have excellent fall backs. North Kingston has a new secondary school that is popular- no exam results yet but expected to do well.

Yes, there are lots of high achieving primaries around - but that just tells you how well other kids are doing - it doesn't guarantee your children will be in the top 2-3 from each school who manage to get a Tiffin place ... that's down to genetics, attitude, luck and preparation. So just make sure you're in an area where the comprehensives are good too. There are some great secondaries around which do very well for their more able kids (as well as those not so able) and get their fair share of top exam grades and Oxbridge places. They often do better than many private schools.

that just tells you how well other kids are doing - it doesn't guarantee your children will be in the top 2-3 from each school who manage to get a Tiffin place...

The point of such a school is more to have the right vibe + choose a school that clearly teaches a lot of able children working at a higher level.

@Noconceptofnormal have you thought of living between kingston and sutton?

Then you have access to TGS and TBS in designated areas plus access to two grammar schools in sutton plus 2 stretch 3 grammars schools in Sutton.

I personally think any primary school is fine alongest the child is happy. The state school will not be grooming them for grammar.

As for the cohort that is such luck of the parents think the same. So it will be you who will need to drive this and get a tutor.

The reason I mention a tutor since it is exam technique and being a year ahead on the grammar unless this is something you can do.

If you are in between Kingston and Sutton the options are more and there are some amazing state schools around as well.

Good luck

Thanks bluebell, I am actually now considering Sutton / Cheam as well as a result of this thread, I need to go there and see how I feel about the area.

Thanks to all of you, you've been very helpful.

Can I ask though, do any children realistically get in to TGS or TBS from the Designated Area or do they all come from the Inner Area?

Inner area get first 60 allocated places out of top 350 scores at tgs- the rest from designated. Check their admission criteria for details. Def more likely like to get in from inner as the designated is so huge. Think the boys is different and just one catchment - could be wrong. Again check admission criteria.

@Noconceptofnormal hi we are in the designated area and we have a child in TGS and another in a selective school in Sutton.

Accept it's an (expensive) gamble whether they get in or not. About a third of the children at my dcs' school were privately tutored for the duration. Only one got in (he was naturally bright). Look very seriously at the other options.

@yomellamoHelly I totally agree!

Thanks fennel bluebell and yome

That is very useful to know yome, I think I need to leave it another couple of years to see how bright they are given their ages. One seems very ahead for her age but may not always be the case.

It is definitely an expensive gamble to relocate for schools.

blubell interesting to know you have a DD at TGS and live in the designated area.

Yes I'll definitely check admissions for all of them, I'm just getting a sense of whether it's pretty much impossible.

Thanks again all. I'll do a recce round some of these areas then probably have some more questions.

It sounds like you miss London a bit too? So might be nice to come back from that perspective anyway.

I’m not completely up to date, but I remember working out that about 1 in 6 get a place at the Sutton grammars. The Tiffins are a bit more competitive than that. However, a proportion of the children sitting the exams isn’t necessarily that bright or well-prepared. You also have a better chance if you’re in inner area/catchment. So for a child that’s bright&well-prepares&lives in the right place, the chances are probably in the region of 1:2 or 1:4.

If you’re checking areas out, then around Sutton , I’d mostly recommend Cheam Village, South Cheam and South Sutton. The vibe is v suburban with lots of greenery and countryside on the doorstep (Banstead Commons + farmland with a good network of footpaths and bridleways). Might suit if you want peace and quiet but also greenery and a big garden.

There’s a lot going on for families eg David Lloyd, Sutton Sports Village, lots of sports clubs (tennis, cricket, rugby), but you can also do golf, bouldering and lots of other stuff (ballet, scouts etc). There’s a nice cinema in Sutton and the shops are useful but it isn’t charming. If you fancy popping out somewhere ‘more London’, then Wimbledon Village is only a 15-min drive. With the trains going in Victoria, London Bridge and St Pancras, commuting is v easy.

I second Cheam as an area, but I don't think the postcode is on the list for Tiffin Girls. It's well within the catchment for Tiffins Boys but there are equally good options with better journeys.

Nonsuch is where you'd be looking at for girls if you live in Cheam. In-catchment chances for girls are much higher than out of catchment.

You'd have lots of choice for boys from Cheam, although the commute for Sutton Grammar would be the best one.
Wilson's is considered the hardest to get into because there's no catchment at all in their admissions policy, so score only and because it's been number 1 or 2 in the country in various tables over the last few years, it attracts applicants from far and wide. And some do end up coming from far and wide too - or moving into the area.

Our Cheam primary school has at least a dozen girls go to Nonsuch each year and around the same again across the boys' grammars. The year group is big at 120 though. They don't prep for 11+ but do a lot of prep for SATs.

My DS has just started yr 7 at Wilson's and DD (yr 5) has just started prep for Nonsuch - both at home with me, but they are very bright and most people do pay for tutors.

Can't say I thought past primary schools when we moved here (I'm not from a grammar area), but it is a fab area for secondary schools. Some 'outstanding' non-selective schools and lots of options in the wider area for those who choose to go the private route.

do any children realistically get in to TGS or TBS from the Designated Area

My daughter got into TGS from the designated area. I think quite a lot do.

Just to add: we are in Wimbledon and at least 4 boys from my sons class have got through to stage 2. We are still in priority area for TIffin boys. Our school has had at least 5-8 kids get into grammars lately. This I suspect has more to do with an increasing number of aspirational parents moving to the area as it never used to be the case. Ditto Sutton grammars. If you want to guarantee catchment for those def consider Cheam Village or Sutton (West) - there are plenty of nice resi areas around.

@justjuice187 'increasing number of aspirational parents moving to the area as it never used to be the case' . In Wimbledon?!

Hi all, my son is in year 5, hoping to sit 11+ next year, both grammar and at independent. He isn’t being tutored as we are able to really help support his maths. The area we need support with is the creative writing aspect. Can anyone recommend a workshop/ tutor for creative writing please? (Oh in the Surrey area). Thanks x