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GCSES re: grade allocation, is this fair?

97 replies

SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 18:02

The facts are these I have an academic son in a London selective school. I appreciate this will be seen as a first world problem.

His school have told me the ranking system will mean that there will be 'winners and losers', he's likely to be a loser.

Are others comfortable if a similar situation arises for their child?

He's going to get good grades, he's bright and he works hard and I realise that this is a good position to be in. This is what I have understood:

He got 9s in all the mocks bar a couple of subjects and was predicted a 9 in all subjects bar one. The 9s he got in December were not 'high 9s' on the whole but not just over the line either. Some exams went very well indeed. He surprised his teachers given his sets. We were delighted his great grade predictions showed they saw his potential, the same as his mock grades for the most part.

The mocks involved questions from past papers and were very tough.

He's in comparatively lower sets and stream than others who got similar grades and performed at this sort of level. There would be evidence to show he was achieving at 9 level but some will be at an 8 etc and it depends what is chosen re: evidence.

Some other boyswho did much worse in mocks than he did are likely to be ranked higher as the school's metrics essentially say they are brighter. Higher sets, higher expectations etc, generally although this will largely play out as unconscious bias etc.

The school have said they won't let a bright child's poor mock performance count against them, those that would have pulled it out of the bag and done more revision towards the end will also be favourably considered if bright on the metrics etc.

They, in the ranking system, I think, will say whether a 9 was secure, marginal or very secure.

Even when there is evidence that my son 'beat' other students by 20 per cent in the mocks and has worked steadily at a high level the 'brighter' children are essentially seen as having under performed and he as over performing.

Not many get a full house of 9s at our school and my son won't.

I feel that many more than usual who are deemed 'best and brightest' now will get a full house re: 9s as there can be no 'off day' tripping them up in any way or a question or two that potentially throws them off. Great, for these children.

On school's metrics they are the scholars, the best and brightest etc so all 9s will have to be awarded.

These will be the 'winners'. My son who is further down the pecking order on their metrics could end up with 7s under this system as there are only so many 9s that can be awarded. It's an unusually able year but they only look at a couple of year's worth of data as I understand it.

They have been told to award as if it was 'a really good day' for child so does that not mean that others will assume a 7 was 'really' a 6 and so on?

I realise that it's 'only GCSEs' etc and others are not in such a fortunate position. How closely do universities look at GCSE grades?

OP posts:
Thisismytimetoshine · 10/06/2020 21:05

They are not going to rank anyone lower based on sets but in large school it is going to be harder for me, teacher of set 6 arguing that a few of my set should be ranked ahead of scholar Johnny and clever Freddie in set 1?
Sorry, I misread this, obviously.

ZombieFan · 10/06/2020 21:08

Anyone in set 6 with a predicted grade 9 will be ranked higher than anyone in set 1 who only achieve a predicted grade 8 or lower.

SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 21:13

No, you didn't misread, I was giving a hypothetical example. I was trying to make the point that it almost feels (to me anyway) that teachers are pitted against each other as forced to rank pupils from 'top to bottom'.

I might feel my pupil (in my set) was more deserving, quite genuinely, but in a big school with lots of pupils, with a broadly similar ability range, it is very difficult and problematic to rank fairly I imagine.

OP posts:
Mintlegs · 10/06/2020 21:20

What happens if they did ok in assessments but their one mock exam result was awful?

titchy · 10/06/2020 21:29

teachers are pitted against each other as forced to rank pupils from 'top to bottom'.

I hope they don't regard the process and pitting themselves against each other - the results won't be made public. There's no league table to be made. I'd like to think they work as a department team, with oversight from the head of department. And have a large pile of evidence to demonstrate that set 6 Jonny is indeed performing better than set 2 Billy.

irregularegular · 10/06/2020 21:39

Do people feel that grades will be awarded more generously this year?

I can't find the link now, but definitely said they are going to award a slightly higher proportion of higher grades than last year.

I think the system will be a fairer in a lot of ways than taking exams. Not everyone will get the same grades, but maybe they will get something closer to the "correct" grade given their ability and effort. Exams are a very imperfect measure and it is easy to have a good/bad day/paper.

Also, as an Oxford admissions tutor I can confirm that we are not allowed to distinguish between 8/9 as schools who did iGCSEs cannot do better than A*.

RobuxBriberyIsMyLifeNow · 10/06/2020 21:47

If you have the mocks in writing and the cash to do it, I'd appeal if he was getting anything other than 8s but I'm a bolshy bugger.

RobuxBriberyIsMyLifeNow · 10/06/2020 21:48

As in cash for legal action not remark as there is nothing to remark. But as I said, I'm a bolshy bugger.

ZombieFan · 10/06/2020 21:50

RobuxBriberyIsMyLifeNow
Their are NO individual appeals this year.

RobuxBriberyIsMyLifeNow · 10/06/2020 21:52

Interestingly, in Germany, where continuous assessment is the key method of assessment, they are offering lower 6th either carrying forward same mark as first term, doing an exam based on zoom lessons they had/home Ed OR taking whatever mark they get Autumn term twice. The 3 options are to give choice and to avoid lawsuits.

RobuxBriberyIsMyLifeNow · 10/06/2020 21:54

As in next term's mark twice. Really zombie? So you don't see any rich parents suing the school, exam board or govt, whoever they can? That's refreshing.

titchy · 10/06/2020 21:57

Oh I'm sure there'll be a few attempting to sue! They won't be successful though.

ZombieFan · 10/06/2020 22:01

you don't see any rich parents suing the school, exam board or govt, whoever they can?
I didn't say that. What would you sue for? Would you sue that teachers are lying? How would you prove that?
You could sue the government that moderating grades is wrong. Good luck with that one, they have been doing it for years.
If you dont like the grade you get you have the choice of sitting the exam in the autumn. What do you think would happen?

Incrediblytired · 10/06/2020 22:14

Did the head give every parent 1:1 discussions on the system? Or have you been pushy? If the latter, the head is likely being deliberately vague.

Most universities are looking at a levels not GCSEs. They just want 5 decent GCSE’s.

As an employer, I don’t care about the numbers. I don’t know what a “marginal or secure 9” is. I can from the time of A’s, b’s and c’s and I hire applicants based on ability - and how they perform at interview,

I get that your child’s grades feel really important right now but there is more to life than grades. I say this as someone with 3 masters degrees and working on a doctorate so I get it. I actually did my bachelors at a less prestigious university out of choice, I was accepted to a well renowned one but didn’t like the course layout and preferred one that had previously been a university college. I was so much happier there. It’s not always about performing 110%

However, your child is unhappy with their grades, surely there will be a (lenient) appeals process?

Bobbybobbins · 10/06/2020 22:33

In my department, the ranking and grading was a very long affair. We spent about 15 hours discussing altogether at different stages and my HOD spent a day doing work related to it.

We considered a myriad of factors including mock performance, extenuating circumstances, trajectory of results, work completed in lessons.

There will definitely be winners and losers. Loser - a boy in my group who underperformed in every piece of work but is able. We decided against grading him higher than a child who had gained better grades in every piece of work, irrespective or target grades.

duletty · 10/06/2020 22:37

Your Child can sit the actual exam this autumn if not happy with grade if they think they or you do, that they can achieve higher. It’s fine, high mocks, low scores in summer results , sit the exams in autumn and you get the award that you feel is right...what is the anxiety over this, I don’t get it? Your child has Extra time, 6 months?? To study for exams

Thisismytimetoshine · 10/06/2020 22:48

Loser - a boy in my group who underperformed in every piece of work but is able. We decided against grading him higher than a child who had gained better grades in every piece of work, irrespective or target grades.
I don't actually see the dilemma there, tbh. Able children fail exams too; if the ability doesn't translate into actual, gradeable good work it should have no bearing on the grade awarded.
He might easily have bombed the exam too, ability notwithstanding.

Bobbybobbins · 10/06/2020 22:55

@Thisismytimetoshine

Yes I agree. I had no issue with it. Just comparing to the OPs school who seemed to suggest to her that they would value prior attainment or what set they were in rather than mock performance. Unless I have read that wrong...

TartanTexan · 10/06/2020 22:55

How are you determining this boy is more able than others but underperforming? He had higher target grades than others because he was more able?

strugglingwithdeciding · 11/06/2020 02:00

It can go other way my son took gcse last year predicted mostly grades 5/6 that's what he got in mocks ans what he worked consistently at
Actual result 6 4's ans couple of 3's so I would of preferred teacher assessments where he was graded on a long period of time rather than a couple of 2 hr papers where he clearly didn't achieve his capabilities

strugglingwithdeciding · 11/06/2020 02:04

I have a current year 10 and was really hoping they would continue teacher assessments for next year
But looks like it's exams but they may be one month later ( they've missed 3 months already )
Would love to see it going back to coursework /assessments and exams personally think that's fairer and more reflective that a quick snapshot

FoolsAssassin · 11/06/2020 02:54

I get where you are coming from but I really think this is the year of moving forward with whatever you get and leaving the whole sorry mess of 2020 as fair behind us as possible.

They are faring better than year 10 in my opinion as had enough time to get to position where learning was mostly finished and a solid set of data behind them plus have time to get a solid start on A level with much bigger chance of disruption in 2022.

Yes some will lose whereas others will win but that’s the same with exams and as others have said, the moment they are done it’s all eyes on next stage. They seem important now but they quickly fade into the background and I’m really pleased that DS can see this and very pragmatic about what he will get on results day .

Kittio · 11/06/2020 04:02

Just interested to know what you mean by a "much bigger chance of disruption in 2022"

FoolsAssassin · 11/06/2020 04:05

Sorry, half asleep! Meant to say much smaller chance of disruption.

Kittio · 11/06/2020 04:08

Ah ok thanks. Wondered if there was something i didn't know about! Smile

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