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GCSES re: grade allocation, is this fair?

97 replies

SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 18:02

The facts are these I have an academic son in a London selective school. I appreciate this will be seen as a first world problem.

His school have told me the ranking system will mean that there will be 'winners and losers', he's likely to be a loser.

Are others comfortable if a similar situation arises for their child?

He's going to get good grades, he's bright and he works hard and I realise that this is a good position to be in. This is what I have understood:

He got 9s in all the mocks bar a couple of subjects and was predicted a 9 in all subjects bar one. The 9s he got in December were not 'high 9s' on the whole but not just over the line either. Some exams went very well indeed. He surprised his teachers given his sets. We were delighted his great grade predictions showed they saw his potential, the same as his mock grades for the most part.

The mocks involved questions from past papers and were very tough.

He's in comparatively lower sets and stream than others who got similar grades and performed at this sort of level. There would be evidence to show he was achieving at 9 level but some will be at an 8 etc and it depends what is chosen re: evidence.

Some other boyswho did much worse in mocks than he did are likely to be ranked higher as the school's metrics essentially say they are brighter. Higher sets, higher expectations etc, generally although this will largely play out as unconscious bias etc.

The school have said they won't let a bright child's poor mock performance count against them, those that would have pulled it out of the bag and done more revision towards the end will also be favourably considered if bright on the metrics etc.

They, in the ranking system, I think, will say whether a 9 was secure, marginal or very secure.

Even when there is evidence that my son 'beat' other students by 20 per cent in the mocks and has worked steadily at a high level the 'brighter' children are essentially seen as having under performed and he as over performing.

Not many get a full house of 9s at our school and my son won't.

I feel that many more than usual who are deemed 'best and brightest' now will get a full house re: 9s as there can be no 'off day' tripping them up in any way or a question or two that potentially throws them off. Great, for these children.

On school's metrics they are the scholars, the best and brightest etc so all 9s will have to be awarded.

These will be the 'winners'. My son who is further down the pecking order on their metrics could end up with 7s under this system as there are only so many 9s that can be awarded. It's an unusually able year but they only look at a couple of year's worth of data as I understand it.

They have been told to award as if it was 'a really good day' for child so does that not mean that others will assume a 7 was 'really' a 6 and so on?

I realise that it's 'only GCSEs' etc and others are not in such a fortunate position. How closely do universities look at GCSE grades?

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Thisismytimetoshine · 10/06/2020 19:03

No.

SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 19:04

@StampMc, subtly different work and texts in English different etc.

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SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 19:06

Some schools don't seem to have had regular assessments etc in the same way as others, that can be used as evidence and data. This must make things more problematic.

Ours is quite good in that way I think.

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GlennRheeismyfavourite · 10/06/2020 19:31

Totally agree - I have some kids I wanted to give 9s but the school said I had a few too many so they had to go as top rank 8s as they weren't as strong as some of the other 9s. I feel so sorry for this cohort!

ZombieFan · 10/06/2020 19:33

there will be 'winners and losers' There is no way they could know this unless they are deliberately lying inflating the pupils grades.

I think, will say whether a 9 was secure, marginal or very secure
Not true, schools are only giving 2 bits of information. Grade and Rank. Nothing will be mentioned about secure or marginal etc.

other boys who did much worse in mocks than he did are likely to be ranked higher as the school's metrics Mock results do not determine the ranking.

There would be evidence to show he was achieving at 9 level
Schools haven't been asked to show evidence of any predicted grades.

questions from past papers and were very tough past papers can be studied before the mock exam making them a lot easier.

He's in comparatively lower sets and stream than others who got similar grades Which does indicate he isn't performing consistently at the top level.

school have said they won't let a bright child's poor mock performance count against them, those that would have pulled it out of the bag and done more revision towards the end will also be favourably considered if bright on the metrics
Exactly as it should be. Predicted grades are not your mock grades.

It's an unusually able year but they only look at a couple of year's worth of data as I understand it Not true

under this system as there are only so many 9s that can be awarded
Again not true, 9s will be awarded to all those who likely would have got it if they has sat the exam, exactly the same as every other year.

They have been told to award as if it was 'a really good day' for child
If the school is saying that they are wrong, schools have been asked to give them the grade they think they would have got if they had actually sat the exam.

the Head and they have effectively told me that he's not going to be a winner in this system
The head should not be telling you this. I think he is inflating the whole schools grades and is worried he will get caught out. He is getting his excuses in first so you blame the exam board rather than the school.

GlennRheeismyfavourite · 10/06/2020 19:37

Zombie fan - I'm afraid I disagree with your comment about the number of 9s. My school were clear it had to be in line with previous years data/yellis etc

LividLaughLovely · 10/06/2020 19:40

In the nicest possible way, you sound horribly over-involved.

The teachers shouldn’t be discussing this with you other than to say the centre-assessed grades will be as fair as possible, which they will be.

Your son’s teachers have known him a long time and will be giving him the CAG they think he deserves.

wanderlove · 10/06/2020 19:42

It's really hard to say for individual schools but I can tell you what my school is doing if that would make it clearer. I'm an English teacher and we have done formally marked assessments every week since September. These are all recorded in spreadsheets and weighted. Eg in week one it may be only 1 question, the mock is a full exam so is a more realistic idea of grade.
We can crunch numbers and put all the students down in order based on these results. If someone had made a silly mistake on the mock (missed a question/ forgotten to turn the page) we could disregard that mark but we certainly wouldn't disregard a great but unexpected performance. The teachers do care about each h child and want them to get a fair grade. I know in my school there has been a lot of discussions on students whose profiles are a bit inconsistent in order to give the fairest mark.
The schools don't give the marks. They submit a rank order of students in each subject, number 1 will get the highest grade and so on to the bottom of the list. The exam board will look at the schools previous performance combined with the cohort's says results. So for example at my school about 70% get 5+ and last year we got about 20 grade 9s in my subject. We would expect the ratios to be about the same but the exam board will check the key stage 2 data to check if the group is brighter or less able on mass than last year's cohort and may adjust accordingly.
So if your son was in my school he may not be as high up the list as a peer who had got 9s in all their exams since September but the 9 in the mocks will be fully reflected in his position in the list.
If your school is giving them a position in the ranking based on their set/group rather than that particular child's previous performance then that is wrong. However if your child isn't in the top set because their previous assessments in the year have been lower then they will be (fairly in my opinion) lower down than those who have higher grades consistently in every assessment since September.
I would 100% check what the school is using. It shouldn't be because they are a nice lad or in the top set but completely fair and based on the evidence they have.

SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 19:45

@LividLaughLovely whilst you may be right :), GlennRheeisyfavourite explains exactly what I'm driving at.

Some things don't go to plan and are out of our control despite our best efforts. A lesson to learn.

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SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 19:50

@wanderlove, I trust them 100% to do their best, and we're all on the same side, but from what I picked up I felt that there would be inevitable outliers who, for various reasons, wouldn't fare so well in the allocation system. For example, GlennRheeismyfavourite couldn't award as she wanted to and as perhaps was truly deserved.

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Kittio · 10/06/2020 19:52

I thought schools weren't supposed to discuss grades with parents to avoid parents putting pressure on to get higher grades

SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 19:54

@Kittio, in our case they haven't, beyond predicted grades going out before exams were scrapped.

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Whatnametomorrow10 · 10/06/2020 19:54

I feel for you - my daughter was predicated 5/4 for English...like you assumed she did well on her mocks by a happy accident & still left her predicted grades which put her sixth form place as uncertain- she got a 7/7 with her actual GCSE exam

areallthenamesusedup · 10/06/2020 19:54

Hi. Unless your son wants to do medicine/VET I really wouldn't worry (and even then see my comment below). Uni's first look at A-level predictions...GCSEs help as part of the overall picture but a good mix of 9 & 8's will fair well.
And to be honest, having chatted to mates who work in uni sector this years GCSE "results" will be given a wide berth anyway.
I really wouldn't stress about it. If he is generally happy, & motivated to get his head down for A-levels...then all is well.

(For whats its worth my youngest (of 4) got TERRIBLE mock results...he didn't lift a finger and his schools mocks are v. early in the year. Post mocks he got his head down, but we know his predicted GCSE's are going to be rubbish...but he is not looking to do medicine, he is not moving schools so we are pretty chilled....yes...he is definitely a loser in the current system...but we know in the overall scheme of things for him (and most probably your son) I am not sure it is a going to be a game changer.

SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 19:57

@areallthenamesusedup really sensible, perspective, thank you.

I have a close friend with a son who sounds exactly like your youngest, he's very smart, he is going to do very well in the overall scheme of things, as you say, I am certain. He's not been served well by this system either.

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SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 20:00

Thanks @Whatnametomorrow10 really glad your daughter did well and got sixth form place.

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ZombieFan · 10/06/2020 20:11

Kittio You are right schools should NOT be discussing grades with parents.

GlennRheeismyfavourite I know many schools are saying they can only award grades in line with previous years. But they have interpreted the guidelines incorrectly. The exam board will be checking schools haven't overinflated grades by looking to see which are not in line with previous years but if their is a good reason why they are different then that is ok. e.g. a very small cohort, a particularly bright cohort, small random variation, previous years had specific issues etc etc

A school can award more high grades than in previous years if it is genuinely deserved.

Zandathepanda · 10/06/2020 20:24

In the nicest way possible - it really doesn’t matter.

Universities don't distinguish between 8s and 9s. And no employer looking at a CV is going to forget 2020 - they’ll raise eyebrows at a suite of 9s. Once you have A Level grades, GCSEs are a distant memory.

The very best thing you can do is get a thorough head start on A Levels. That is an advantage you can control.

StaffAssociationRepresentative · 10/06/2020 20:29

Those grades and rankings will then be squished into an exam board formula to smooth out grade inflation. I am really sorry for my group who are high performing and would have blown previous years results out of the water if they had sat the GCSE. The group was definitely top heavy 6/7/8/9 and I think it will be spread from 4 upwards. A real tragedy

SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 20:39

@StaffAssociationRepresentative how might an exam board formula work in layman's terms? Why will those you deem a 6 likely get a 4 etc? Thanks, curious.

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ZombieFan · 10/06/2020 20:48

Why will those you deem a 6 likely get a 4 etc

Moderation (up or down) will only be by 1 grade imo no way will they be jumping grades around by more than that. Highest ranked student in a grade might go up, lowest ranked student might go down.

titchy · 10/06/2020 20:56

The group was definitely top heavy 6/7/8/9 and I think it will be spread from 4 upwards

Only if you grade the weakest a 4 Hmm Assuming your evaluation is correct you should award 6+. I can't see any grade going down by more than 1, not without an investigation into the centre.

Thisismytimetoshine · 10/06/2020 20:59

I'm confused now... You're a teacher, op? Who will be grading her own students, and you haven't a clue how it works??

SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 21:02

No, I am not a teacher, but I am interested in hearing from teachers about how this works and trying to understand more.

On that note to the teachers on this thread are the autumn first sit/'resit' exams still on course? And do you think it will just be re: English and Maths?

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SeafrontBingo · 10/06/2020 21:03

NB: it was StaffAssociation mentioned her pupils likely being downgraded.

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