Son excluded from reception class - advice please! (sorry, quite long)

[prudencepinkleg]

hi. I could really do with some advice on this. ds2 has just started in reception at an independent school. He's previously been to nursery and when there was initially selectively mute and as a result would express himself with outbursts of temper. They managed to deal with him over nearly 3 years and eventually he was talking freely and the tantrums had diminished a lot. Now he's started somewhere new and doesn't know anybody it's obviously a very hard situation for him. He is an anxious little boy and finds it incredibly hard to get to know other children. So in the first 2 weeks he had 2 quite bad outbursts. And yes they were bad (throwing, standing on tables etc) and he needed restraining by the class teacher. However, in his defence he was in a new place with full days AND sickening for a bad viral croup the 2nd time. PLUS he'd made loads of progress in interacting and settling down. Anyway, we have been asked to remove him from school for the forseeable future until we can see a paediatrician and get his behaviour sorted. But keeping him away is not going to help him and dh and I feel they should support us and come to a compromise (eg mornings only and me on call) but they don't seem too willing. Another option for us to take him to one of the local village schools (very small) but that does mean another change although he does know 2 boys there already. It's complicated by the fact ds1 is now there in yr2 (new school for him too) and is settling well. HELP!!

Ds started year 1 last year and did so well that after xmas he started doing literacy and numeracy with year 2 so that he could do his SATs. Being ds he only wanted to do his numeracy test but the LEA accepted teacher reports for his other subjects and he went into year 3 in sept. So you could say he skipped year 2 but it was more like he did year1 and 2 together.

dusty - u are so right! lots of the families of my students say they were diagnosed at around 7 yrs, until then they went everywhere to try to find out what their DS (and they are mostly male -75%) had going on.
Sympathy!!

It was the one good thing to come out of ds disasterous experinences at his first school. We realised that he was different and he got support early on rather than struggling for the next 2 or 3 years. He is due to be assessed for AS and ASD soon and i am going to chat to the paed about it when i see him next.

That's what I thought - that ds was really too young for a proper diagnosis. He is very mixed in how is generally; sometimes seems to play well, other times has poor concentration etc. But I find his behaviour very challenging a lot of the time.

if i can be help to any of u lot (ASD etc) i'd love to - i've gotta go 4now but will come back later. my 12 years of autism experience is yours for the use of, if u need!!

Thanks fihi

PS all - try pictures to help them to know what they're doing next. PICTURE-ME website has loads of useful stuff. reduces anxiety and helps them manage changes that otherwise make them panic. I even use them on DS1 (?dyslexic) as he's rubbish with change too.

Thank you so much everybody. I have to go now too: ds1 on at me to use the computer!!

Ask your village school what their % is for SEN. I was surprised to hear when we went to visit last week, that our local primary, (which has very good results in the league tables)has 33% SEN but the Head said they are very good at diagnosing and processing, and SEN can even be for children with poor handwriting - basically it's to get funding. Not sure what I think of this but all the classes have at least one learning support assistant, sometimes 2. I'm not saying that your son will be in need of this once he's settled, but it will tell you a lot about how inclusive they are towards different pupils' needs.

As someone who attended prep school, I would definitely say unless they have a specialist SEN unit then it ISN'T the place for your son if they proving so inflexible and not giving him longer to settle.

The GP has referred you to see a Paed. who will probably refer you to see a psychologist, SALT and OT and together they will come to a dx. The ed psych can't diagnose, they can only support and deal with the problems arising from the dx.

I would think that by the time your ds has been through the system, so to speak, he will be old enough to diagnose AS if necessary. My DS1 was diagnosed at the age of 5.5yrs and the whole process from the initial referal was over 18 months. A lot of it depends on the waiting lists in your area but they generally seem to be very long.

In the meantime I would send him to the village school too. He will get a lot more support than he is getting now, no matter how he is diagnosed. If they know he is being assessed they will probably help him without a statement and they can put him on the SN register without getting a dx too.

You have my sympathy though - not the best way to start his formal education for the poor little chap.

Definitely look at eprcentages of sn kids, our school (ds1 just transferred to Juniors) ahd terrible issues dealing with ds1, they only had a percentage when ds1 was admitted of- wait for it- 0% SN!! If you see that anywhere don't beleive it, it means theya re crap at recognising and supporting in statementing, nothing else! (they now have 4 sn kids that I know of, witha nother few been diagnosed- like to think I helped them get their arses in order LOL).

IPSEA (look for the website) is fantastic with regards to this issue, they can offer all sorts of advice.

The dx procedure can vary a it- ds1 was diagnosed at 6, (HFA), the Paed here onlys aw him twice, but the Paed abck home said yeah well probably but not as if we can do anything and discharged!! DS3 in in the dx procedure, we have been told what to expect (ASD, learning diffciculties, possibley a separate language disorder) bu6t as the dx's can overlap she want to monitor him over time first- she has (she being the Paed) been very good in helping us get a statement in place though, and aa school place (village school was dithering about and threatebing to wihdraw his palce) so we get mroes upport from her than many do after dx, iyswim.

Do try IPSEa, they are fab

Prudence, what actions did the school take prior to exclusion. We have a child with challenging behavior in ds2's reception class. The reward system has been beefed up for the whoile class and this child also has a behaviour record book listing out the triggers and reaction to various incidents. The class teacher meets with the parents daily to discuss what has happened. The boy is spending some time out of the class working in a different class (typically in a class of older boys), but that is in part to minimise the disrutpion to the other children in his class. It strikes me as being rather early in the term for someone to have been excluded especially on such a long term basis. If they don't feel that they are part of their solution then your son needs to be elsewhere. The school's behaviour in this is really not acceptable.

Before the exclusion they got a behaviour specialist in who gave us some tips for home and also (I assume) to school including how to restrain him. They also set up a plan so that he could spend some 1 to 1 each day with class teacher but I'm not sure for how long. That's about it really. We are disappointed as we don't feel he's been given a chance, especially as he was coming down with viral croup.

Independent schools (and I am a teacher at one and my children attend one!!) are quite simply not geared up for special needs children. If he does have special needs he is much better off in a local state school where they are fully prepared for the full spectrum of SN

IMO I think your DS's school have been incredibly shortsighted; they will have recieved a full report from your ds's nursery and so will know of his selective mutism and his way of communicating so they should have prepared themselves for it. 2 outbursts is hardly anything, they seem to be running scared.

Talk to the school asap and tell them that they are the ones letting ds down and not the other way round. If they are not prepared to help ds deal with the situation in school then take him elsewhere. Do it quickly so that ds can settle.

Good luck, tell us how you get on

We have a meeting this week so I'll let you know what decision how we get on. At least at village school he is 5 mins away, he knows 2 boys and can do mornings. Plus they said "we don't discriminate against anybody" and seem prepared to accept him, knowing the situation.

Well in fairness to the staff if you didn't spot he was coming down with croup then they were unlikely to spot it either. I'm assuming that his behaviour was out of the norm by quite a way for reception boys though (most of ours seem to have head colds or are just obviously knackered after the school day). But I would read the signs as being that they are not able to cater for any SN that impacts behaviour. As an independent school they won't have any funding for SN, and with smaller class sizes there may just simply be fewer adults around in the first place.

In terms of your older son, I do believe that you should, if possible, look at what is the best school for each child. The needs of your children are different so it may be the case that different schools give the best for both children.

I work for the NHS. In the same way that, by and large, if there's REALLY something medically wrong with you (like getting scraped off a motorway or cancer), go to a large district general, don't faff about with private, potentially fooled by the oily consultant and deep-pile carpet- I feel the same way about your situation. Unless the private school in question specialises in SEN, run away. Go to where they more or less know what they're doing: the state sector. Not only do they have the expertise, they have the legal, moral and professional commitment.

Incidentally, I don't want to imply that private school teacher's DON'T have any commitment- of course they do, but many are bound by the financial cost/benefit constraints of the company they work for- I just mean the state sector HAS to sit up and take notice. the private can just ask your child to be withdrawn. Spend the private fees on getting assessments, accessing help beyond what the state sector can fund. And good luck at a difficult time!

Dont worry miljee, i am an ind. school teacher and I agree with you and don't take offence

Thanks again everyone. It does seem that your experiences are that the state can more easily offer the support ds needs. Incidentally, does anyone know whether ADHD/ASD are linked to OCD? I am OCD sufferer so just wondering about genetic link.

hi pru (i'm back. obviously.) You any nearer a decision? There seems to be lots of helpful stuff comin your way, ooo mn is fab.

hi fihi. Everyone has been very supportive which is fab. Once we've seen current school this week we can make a final decision but looking at the posts today it seems clear which appears the most promising. Actually you might know the answer to my question about OCD?

hehe perfect timing. ASD /ADHD are not linked to OCD although some of the behaviours can overlap that it can be difficult to decide which one is which IYSWIM. I teach a young lady who has both ASD and OCD, and the real difference from what i can see is that her need to complete a whole routine of tasks is more of a mental health issue whereas autism type disorders have more of a need to have structure but can be varied. It's really hard to explain!! Autism is proven to have a genetic link-from parents to offspring or a number of siblings within a family; don't know the genetic deal with OCD.

Ok sounds interesting. I was on Seroxat while pregnant both times and often wonder whether this had impact on dss. Both have been challenging although ds1 is coming through a lot of his difficulties now he is 6 and is, dare I say it, blossoming which is great (real attitude though!). ds2 is obviously more of a worry and I think MORE difficult as gets older.

had similar debates in own little head over DS1 learning probs and medication i had in pregnancy - i think we're just programmed to feel responsible, it's a mum thing...