Uniform rules.

[lou33]

I just wanted to get a few opinions from parents and teachers on this.

Dd1 is year 8, and the school has issued every pupil with a letter about school uniform, which I have had to sign and return, saying i have seen it.

It states that uniform has become a serious issue, with some pupils refusing to look smart and conform (I haven't seen anything too jawdropping myself, just usual older kids trying to look cool), so from last monday the head (newly appointed) has insisted (their wording) on four rules.

These are, ties to be worn at an appropriate length and done up, shirts to be tucked in, school jumpers or sweatshirts to be worn at all times inside the school unless given premission in class by a teacher to remove it, but it has top be put on at the end of the lesson to go to the next class, and no trainers except for pe, or with a medical letter from a gp. Black shoes only.

The letter then goes on to say tha tany child who does not conform will have parents contacted to be sent home to get properly dressed before they can go back into lessons, and if this is not possible, then they will be excluded from lessons, isolated for the day and supervised by a teacher.

I just think the punishment is extreme for the crime iyswim. It seems ridiculous to exclude someone for not wearing a jumper for example, and an awful lot of extra time given over to teachers who could be doing something more productive. I don't see sense in it, and to me it seems more about social control than educating pupils.

Am i missing the point?

Dd is not likely to get into trouble for any of these reasons btw, but for some reason this has been playing on my mind.

Does anyone else like me LOVE wearing uniforms?
I have no physical flair at all when it comes to self presentation and have always taken great comfort from wearing a uniform where at least how you dress is removed from the things to worry about equation .

Funny I ended up in a job where I get to wear not only a uniform but a MASK! How great is that?

BTW, I am in favour of enforcing (reasonably) the rules on uniform, because it gives teenagers something to rebel against in safety. Far better that they focus their attention on trying to get round the rules by taking their ties off than have to do something much more dangerous to make their point.

I am glad about the no kissing rule too as it makes the ones with no chance of getting kissed feel a whole lot better!

There have been times when I have openly gone against the heads rules about uniform. He insists that even on the hottest days in summer that kids in our comp have to have sleeves fully down and top buttons done up. I cant enforce a rule i cannot myself do in hot conditions.
His argument is they should get short sleeved shirts but of course hardly any have them.

The kids know the rules and also know virtually all the teachers disagree in hot weather.

Jasper, I don't know about the swearing, should I put my mod hat on do you think ?

Hercules, has the head ever discovered this occasional breach of rules by you? If so, what was his reaction?

jasper - I agree about liking to wear uniforms as I said in my post I think uniforms are a great leveller. I actually liked my uniform and I felt special wearing it and being part of the 'school team'

No, meanbean you made a funny comment about it being a decline in standars, 'they will be having it away on the tewnnis courts, decline of the Roamn empire' was along the lines. I took this as you having a laugh about silly rules. Sorry if I misread it, but there you go, sounded as if you were having a dig about silly rules to me.

Edam, agree with you 100%

Hercules, we have a strict code, but it is relaxed in summer. Now we are trying to persuade them in the freezing cold that the summer is over!

The basic difference is that when we were told off for a uniform volation it was 'a fair cop' and we would sort it. With many of these kids you get 10 minutes of back chat and whinging, and yes, their 'human rights' are brought up! Then as soon as they are out of sight the uniform goes back to its bad state.

Part of the probelm is that many of us went to school in the 70s and 80s. It just isn't the same today. If any of you saw the program 'That will teach them' that is just what someof the kids are like. Foul mouthed, stroppy little individuals who are underperforming because they are lazy and demotivated.

Honesly spend a day in a local comp, it will blow your mind how bad some of these kids are. And how great some of them are.

HMB you did misread it. That was a serious comment, albeit flippantly delivered. But I know it's not always possible to judge the tone of someone's voice when it's written down, and I do understand that when you're having nightmares with parents at school, it must be infuriating to come on Mumsnet and see people looking as if they're belittling the problems you face. That was certainly not the intention of that comment, it's just how I talk (sometimes!)

I think my dd has a dodgy internal thermometer. She is STILL going to school in a skirt and ankle socks, saying she is too hot to wear long socks or tights! She even whinged about taking her coat, because she thinks it is too warm to wear one.

i agree with hmb 100%. my dd`s school are far to lax on uniform, half the children turn up incorrectly dressed, most wear trainers & the school says nothing. how can you expect a child to respect school rules about anything when the school cant be bothered to enforce their own rules about something small like uniform?

DS1s school was a failing underperforming school. The new Head came in, brought in a strict uniform code (polo shirts & sweat shirts) & pulled the school up by its bootstraps. Despite being in a very poor area & plenty of SEN it now has a long waiting list.

DD went to a private school with a strict uniform. She used to make a fuss about having to wear a skirt at primary but once at the new school just got on with it, like everyone else. Best of all the school allowed NO piercings except 1 in earlobe, so when she started wanting various bits pierced it was easy to say "sorry, school says no". She accepted that, instead of having to argue with us!

It does seem to make an incredible difference to the attitude of the kids (I was an LSA for a few years so I've been on the other side too), but MUST be enforced. There is nothing worse than a uniform code with certain people allowed to blatantly flaunt it.

At my secondary school we were not allowed to even take off our blazers unless we had been told it was a blazer off day. It would usually take somoene fainting before that would happen.

Hmb, I do really want to know what happens when kids are sent home for eg. uniform infractions. Ds is only tiny so I have no idea how this works but am worried at the thought of him being let loose from school years from now and roaming the streets while I'm at work, oblivious. Does that really happen, or do the schools call the parents to collect?

The school phones them to collect. We don't just give them the boot! They are placed in the pastoral office while they wait for the parents to pick them up, same deal as when they are ill and need to go home (except them they are in the medical room IYSWIM)

phew! It's just schools always talk about 'sending them home', never explain what that means.
You'd think parents would want to avoid being dragged out of work because their little darlings are playing up at school, wouldn't you? Or am I being very naive?

No, you are just a good mum, as sane person and a good egg!

TBH so are lots of the parents of horrid kids. I feel for them.

they may well send their little darling off to school in correct dress but the little darling will 're-arrange' things by the time they get to school. Still, inconveniencing the parents can concentrate the minds of the less involved parents wonderfully.

ds2 rearranges his - almost before he's at the top of the drive, shirt comes out, top button undone, tie pulled loose. When he gets to school he has to rearrange it all back again - looking cool takes top priority.

hmb, I'm so glad you're back - you talk so much sense. On the uniform point we have a new head (last term) whose first act was to crack down on uniform - is this taught at "new head school"? I don't particularly care if the children wear the wrong shoes but I do care if they deliberatly flout school rules. A while ago our middle daughter was given an after school detention for having been a pain with two friends in a French lesson - they were tunelessly humming, obviously a last-straw situation. After school detention is a nuisance as it means collecting the kids as they have missed the school bus, and so on. Our dd was furious because we made her do the detention while the parents of the other two wrote letters to have their kids excused. What sort of example is that to give? Even if the teachers are wrong, which does happen occasionaly, it is still the Duty of the parents to support the school. What hope do the teachers have otherwise if they are undermined?

@ HMG...thank you for brightening my evening, was just (after 3 months ML) starting to miss being in a classroom with people who (mostly) do as told...unlike baby & indeed husband...

As for uniform rules - I was a complete uniform rebel myself as a kid (still a bit of a goth actually, which amuses my students NO end) - but it's amazing how a few years teaching changes your attitudes on these things. OK, uniform rules are often petty & as adults we'd resent them, so it's hardly surprising the kids do. However, you have to draw a line somewhere...we specify black coats for instance, & you wouldn't BELIEVE the crap I took off one mum whose little darling was proudly sporting a (ridiculously expensive) black coat with 'Phat Bastard' emblazoned on it...

As hmg says, it ultimately comes down to respecting the school you choose to send your kids to - if a rule is really daft, do PLEASE lobby the governors, most of the staff probably agree with you anyway. But kids are not always good at judging the difference between a petty rule (precise way to wear a tie) & a vital one (safety gogs in the lab) - it's in their interest to send them the clear message that you support ALL school rules.

(Makes our job a damn sight easier too admittedly...)

I find the inability of some kids to follow even basic rules rather worrying. The safelty goggles was a classic case. That one isn't a petty rule, but they try their damndest to ignore them just the same. And it isn't that they have been turned into rebels by the other rules. They just don't want to conform.

We had a full school assembly, with a visitor opening a new computer suite. 16 year old girls takled and giggles through the who thing and were constantly asking 'when will this finish miss' loudly. They are always late for school and for lessons. One came into my sixth form lesson and was so rude that the sixth form kids were appauled by her behaviour.

That girl, who is rude, disruptive, does no work, stops the work of others and is a pain in the neck wants to stay into the sixth form. I don't think she should get that change tbh. Tho god knows how she will get and keep a job when she treats everyone with contempt.

I don't like to be a tough teacher, but sometimes I have to be. With classes who know how to behave you an have fun and then say 'back to work now' and they do it. Some of these kids see any form of pleasent behavuir from teachers as weakness and begin to spiral out of control

I worry, I honeslty do about the society these kids will form. I went to a rough comp, and we were not saints, by any degree. But if we were caught it was a fair cop and the last thing that we wanted to do was bring shame on our families. These kids don't know the meaning of the word shame. And their parents let them get away with it.