Real dilemma. Ds has told me he doesn't want to go to a grammar school...

[Blossomhill]

Just gone into year 5 and we are having him tutored. He asked if his friend's will be going. I had to answer honestly and say probably not (obviously ds is a 50/50 atm too, who knows?). He got quite upset and said he wanted to go where his friends are going. What do I do?

Send him to grammar school.

Tough one. Are you sure none of his friends are likely to pass?

If you are having him tutored, is that because he will struggle to pass on his own? And if so, is grammar school reallly the right place for him? Just thinking if he is coached through the exam but is not fundamentally working at that level he might end up miserable.

FWIW dh's niece was one of only a handful of children from her school to pass the 11+. Don't think any of her friends have gone on to the same school with her. And she's doing fine now (age 13). Her little brother is unlikely to pass so SIL and BIL aren't having him tutored because it will just make him unhappy.

hello again bh i think you are going through what we went through - at the end of the day I made the decision but kind of allowed ds to think he was making the decision - he is the only one and has had a tough first week but has found some other runescape players and is making new friends. I think in reality even if he goes to non grammar with friends their are no guarantees he will be in the same sets/class as his current freinds, plus he can still see his old friends at weekends. When you do all the open days your ds may prefer the facilities that the grammar schools have. I used all these arguements with ds - but i knew a grammar school was right for him and in the long run he would be happier

If he really doesn't want to go, he could refuse to correctly answer the test questions. It's a really tough one, and you'll need to handle it carefully. Take him to see both schools, he might really like the grammar. You never know, his friends might get in, and he might not, so present it to him that way.

I know I'm going to be where you in the not too distant future, so you have my every sympathy.

SS and MrsS are both very sensible. I think you need to visit the schools and have a chat with him about no guarantees that he will be with his friends anyway.

Would agree that there is no guarantee about being with friends.
Ds started Year 7 this week with 3 (L, M AND B) friends. They are all in the same form, but even though DS and M & B got in on the aptitude test and are pretty much on the same level educationally, he only shares maths and english with B and the other subjects with the M. The M & B share no lessons at all.

DS and L (his best friend since infants) have no lessons together at all either.

Speaking as a girl who got her own way and went to school with my friends...

...send him to the Grammar, unless he is seriously socially inept.

Just curious, but is there a reason why you really want him to go to gammar school? Is it because the non-grammar does not offer what you thinks he needs or its not that good? I only ask, because, as McEdam says, he may pass but them not be able to cope. That or his confidence will be shot because his new class mates flew through the 11+.
A friend of dd was coached last year to get through the 11+ and she is already miserable at grammar.

DS2 had this dilemma. His best friends were all going to the high school, whereas he was clearly grammar school material.

I explained to him that he wouldn't necessarily be in the same class as his friends, either as a form or for lessons (as they stream) and that most children, when they go to secondary, make new friends anyway. I made sure that he understood that I would do everything I could to facilitate maintaining friendships with friends from primary and he seemed happy with this.

He started at grammar last Tuesday and has come home with a list of names of new friends he has made (in addition to the two boys he already knew).

I know that the loss of friendships seems huge at this age, but he will make new friends and may even be able to keep up with his old ones.

It's early days yet and he will change (and friendships might change) before he gets to the stage of secondary school. I agree about taking him to see both schools. Also find out as much as you can about the Grammar School before you go - does it have particularly strong clubs/teams for something he is interested in, for example. Most children would choose to stay with friends rather than go to an unknown school. If he asks again about his friends going I would say well no-one knows yet it depends how well they do in the exam - rather than saying probably not. When you find out who goes from this year's Year 6 it might be worth seeing if your DS could speak to them sometime next year to hear what it is like.

Don't part him from his friends.
The key to a child's educational success largely lies with their parents and homelife. You obviously get yourselves involved in his education and encourage him to do well. And so he will, regardless of the school he goes to. In fact he'll probably do better in the state as he'll be happier with his friends. Changing schools and having to make new friends is a huge emotional trauma. It's bad enough going to secondary school, but to go to a different one than your friends, that's even worse.

I went to a different school to nearly all my friends, and it was fine for me. I tihnk you need to judge it on how you think your ds would cope with starting afresh.

I do think he needs to know that secondary is very, very different, even if he does go up with friends. There'll be many more kids there and he may well be forced into the position of having to make new friends anyway.

Starting a new school is hard, yes but it's perfectly do-able for most children and I do think it's a good life skill to learn that you can rely on your own resources to start anew and make new friends.

Having said that I wouldn't assume that the grammar will be best. I think kids need to be in a school with a caring, accepting ethos where they can relax and be themselves. That's going to enable them to reach his potential. If that's the grammar, great, but equally if that's provided by the state school then myself, I would have no worries about going for that. You're involved and supportive and as Rhubarb says that counts for a huge amount in terms of him acheiving his potential.

It's not up to him, send him to the grammar if he gets in

Is he actually grammar school material? I only ask as it seems early to be tutoring him.

If he won't be able to keep up when he gets there he will only be mediocre at best whereas he may fly at the comprehensive where it would be less competitive.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all of your helpand advice. I think the main thing is that he is happy.

The school he is in now was not even on my list of choices tbh and I hated it as it was my last alternative and he has done so well there.

I do worry that the stress of grammar may be too much. Although ds is very academic I would say he is more of an all rounder, so very sociable, loves football and generally being one of the boys.

Oh I don't know, this whole secondary thing is so scary....

wth ~ tbh I really don't know. I have been told he is but as I don't know a great deal about grammar schools I can only go by what his teachers have said. I think you are right about him maybe doing better if he is somewhere he feels happy and less pressured. I still clearly remember a comment in his school report for year 2 "xxx lacks confidence in his own ability" and it really sticks in my mind even now.

I have had this convo with Dd1 BH. She is adamant which school she wants to go to, and won't even try for a grammer school.

I am lucky in that I have the choice of 2 good secondarys on the doorstep and am confident that dd1 would do well at either and so, I have agreed to ditch the grammer school option.

I personally think that friends when you are that age are important, and would rather dd got to go to her choice, with her friends and cxarry on being the happy confident child that she is, than me force her to go somewhere she doesn't want to and have her go downhill in all areas if that makes sense.

Having said that, if the local secondarys were rubbish I would definatly have to try and push dd to the grammer option.

It is a tough lesson at 11 but actually I think that one of the key lessons in life is the skill to making new friends wherever you are. Continuing childhood friendships is wonderful, but actually he does need to have a variety of experiences both of sustaining some friendships without daily contact (otherwise he'll never ring you once he leaves home!), and in making new friends in order to become the well-adjusted capable young man that he should become.

Even if he doesn't get into the grammar school there is no guarentee as to where he or his friends will end up. But for now, especially given the tutoring, I think that you need to show him the benefits of the grammar school. As I'm in the LBofC I think that when my turn comes round I can show the ds's round one of the local secondary schools safe in the knowledge that if that doesn't motivate them, nothing will.

My dd also didn't want to go to the grammar school,she also lacks confidence in her own ability despite being very bright.She's just passed her gsce maths a yr early and got an A,and she thinks she's nogood at maths.

I decided her confidence was more important than pushing the grammar school.She excels at the local very good state school.I know I made the right choice ,but I did have a very good state school so that helped .
Some of the people I know who did choose the state school have regretted it because the local state is so good now.

Some of the people I know who did choose the grammar school have regretted it because the local state is so good now.

My mum gave me a choice of where I wanted to go at this age. I went to the comprehensive with my friends. Looking back, I think that they education was not great but I had friends who were VERY UNHAPPY in grammar school, because they did not stay with their friends. I am very pleased that I stuck with my friends. I got through my GCSEs ok, and then when I went to college and university I did much better.

We asked my dd to pick her favourite selective and non selective when she was in year 6 having been to visist all the local schools, that way if she had not passed her 11+ she would be happy with both choices. Can't you suggest he does the test anyway he may be surprised how many of his friends are also doing it. DD passed and chose the grammar school after all and is really happy and confident there. Just about to do same with ds but he wants grammar school so have reverse problem he will have to have at least one non selective on his list in case he does not pass. Good luck Blossom hope all works out well.

The other thing to bare in mind is that they change so much during the last two years in primary. I'm guessing that a decision won't need to be made until the October he is in Yr 6, so he may well have completely changed his mind by then anyway! Try not to get too stressed about it now, it will consume every waking minute of your day soon enough!

Bh, DS2 said this at the start of Y6; he thought most if not all of his friends wouldn't even be taking the exam (plus his older brother had fed him stories of how much he disliked the place )

However when he went to the Open Evening he really liked it, and then he found that some of his friends were taking the exam, so he changed his mind.

I would tell DS now that having the tutoring now doesn't mean he has to take the exam or go to the school - he can decide nearer the time. (Of course if he makes the wrong choice you will overrule him but he doesn't need to know that now )

Oh, and he ended up with a complete new circle of friends anyway