Middle class parents trying to get private school bursaries

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Would really welcome people's thoughts on this. I know of a couple of couples who are trying to get bursaries for their children to go to private school. They are all highly educated people from wealthy backgrounds but who either have low paying creative jobs (e.g. artist/film-maker) or left highly paying jobs to start their own companies which have yet to succeed. Both couples live in high-cost luxury, rented apartments but have little income coming in (although enough savings to keep paying the rent). I think if they want there kids to go to private school they should get off their arses and do some work that pays, rather than getting the school (AKA other parents at the school) to to pay for their kids education. What do you think as this is really pissing me off!!!! (Btw, I live in crap accommodation, and work all hours doing a job I hate to pay for my children's school fees). Are they taking the piss or am I just full of sour grapes because I didn't do what they're doing?

One of the conditions of bursaries at dds school is that you do not discuss it with other parents

Schools have criteria for bursaries because there are more applicants than bursaries.

For example, lots will say something like bursaries are awarded on a sliding scale based on income and families with an income above £80k are unlikely to qualify for anything.

Some will see £80k and say such families are rich and shouldn’t qualify. But the point is school has calculated that most with that income won’t be able to afford the full fees of perhaps £25k out of post tax income. Bursaries are there to help anyone who can’t afford the fees and that can include the very poor (who may get 100% remission plus extras for uniform and trips) to the well heeled middle class who also can’t afford it but might just qualify for much smaller help.

So if you qualify you qualify, in my view. Normally schools use standard bursary terms which say things like 2nd homes, significant home improvements, luxury holidays and significant savings are not compatible with receiving a bursary and people must expect to work if they can and release equity where possible. So it’s not just income and schools say they aren’t there to give bursaries so families can avoid fees and pay for luxurious life style choices. I think these policies are reasonable. The reality is though that most bursaries do go to the lower earning but well educated families - the hard pressed middle class rather than the working class or those from really deprived backgrounds.

If people are cheating the system, then that’s wrong - so hiding income or assets. Schools check paperwork but those really determined probably can hide their income and wealth.

But if people are honest, I have no problem with middle class professionals applying for bursaries and getting them if they qualify and if otherwise they couldn’t go. There can be jealousy or envy about bursaries which allow some families to access independent education and when those accessing it aren’t visibly really poor, sometimes others on similar incomes who don’t apply or have bursaries and independent Ed or those on slightly higher incomes who don’t qualify or decide they can’t afford it can feel its wrong that others have it.

Generally it’s unfair isn’t it that some children get to receive a £40k education and others one which costs the state £5k. Private education is inherently unfair and many aspects of it including bursaries make people cross or feel annoyed to think some children are having something theirs aren’t.

Great post WombatChocolate.

Innate (parental) ability is the elephant in the room though. A clever, musical child of MC parents doing low paid public sector jobs is likely to qualify because the parents are going to encourage child taking every opportunity that's available. The parents of a very clever child from an unpromising upbringing are much less likely to realise that their child could be eligible and might not know that the opportunity was open for them. A former colleague once told me that once he passed the 11+, and went to grammar school, his family felt uncomfortable with the cuckoo in their nest.

100% bursary here for one of the leading peeping schools in the country.

The fact that you are in rented and low income will go in their favour (I’m £24k part time plus benefits) but own mortgaged property with £350k equity.

As for their savings - I have about £10k and I said that I would use that for uniform (extensive) and trips and also my rainy day fund.

They were wonderfully kind, non-judgemental and thorough

Prep

Absolutely no one knows at the school aside from staff
And nor will they know
My child doesn’t know

It’s all very well saying these people have to provide payslips / home visits etc. If they own their own business we know how that’s easily got around. If they own a mansion are they going to suggest they sell it and buy something smaller and pay the fee’s with the proceeds? No doubt it. It would be nice to think that bursaries are going to kids who would never get a chance to attend schools like this otherwise. Not parents who are sending their kids anyway but think they will try and fiddle the finances so they get another luxury holiday. Annoys me so much. If private schools really wanted to reach out to poor family to use those bursaries they really could, so many ways to do that but we all know they’d rather stick with the first one and get the kind of families they want at the school instead.

If they own a mansion are they going to suggest they sell it and buy something smaller and pay the fee’s with the proceeds?

In that instance the bursary application would be turned down! Good schools receive far more requests than they can meet - and they’re certainly not obliged to give reasons for a refusal.

And the best run schools have development offices whose staff actively seek out potential candidates. (I’m sure it’s not an exact science but experience suggests that not every single person in a school admissions office is a self serving snob - it’s even possible that one or two of them try to look beyond mere tokenism ...)

lovemenorca preferred peeping

Darbs76 you wouldn't get a bursary if you lived in a mansion and went on luxury holidays. They are genuinely there for bright kids whose parents can't afford the fees. It's not a big conspiracy.

@Darbs76

You don’t seem to have the faintest clue about the process.
Owning a mansion is going to rule you out. They will ask to see tenancy agreement if you say you rent or full mortgage details

It might be possible for the self employed to conceal income and not declare everything. It is not so possible to hide the home you live in. Those determined to cheat the system probably can do it to a degree, but schools work hard to make the process clear and to ensure bursaries aren't given to those who have the funds to pay fees but just prefer to spend their cash on a luxurious lifestyle instead - of course that would not be fair to those who choose to make sacrifices so their children can attend.

If you want to enter the system and apply for a bursary you have to work within the system that exists. And actually if you know someone who is cheating the system it would actually be good to whistleblow because fraud in any system hurts everyone.

School Bursars are always happy to discuss bursaries with potential parents. They are usually over subscribed by middle class parents but love it when someone from a more unusual background for their school enquires....but as had been said, it doesn't happen loads for most schools because cultural and lack of knowledge factors stop it happening. Very few schools have staff who can really actively go out and find the very bright, but deprived children who are out there.

So they aren’t well paid and can’t even afford to buy a house? Sounds like they have every right to apply. You’re just being an inverted snob because they come from posh backgrounds. Mind your own business.

We have a bursary and I'm not currently working and earning money.
It wasn't part of the deal, tbh.
My dd found her school, I said not a cat in hells chance can we afford it and she sent me the bursary info.

We got asked about savings, other kids and whether we worked full time. They don't give bursaries easily, if you aren't working but have savings no chance of a bursary

I have friends who are a couple with one child. One half of the couple is self employed and works full time as an artist. The other is self employed in another profession and works part time. If this person worked full time they would be above the salary threshold for a bursary. So they made a conscious decision to keep their joint income low enough to get the bursary. There are no disabilities or special needs anywhere in the family. It really bothers me that they did this.

We just give our annual income and the evidence that goes with it, so, business tax statement from HMRC. Also p40 and last pay slip in March if we have these. We don't as we don't issue ourselves with pay slips.

Seems to me you have to be fairly well off just to apply ... when I had a brief peek over the fence to our local private - it was more than £100 just to do the exam ... and people seem to need to apply to several to make sure of an offer. And you'd only know if you were getting a bursary at the end of that process, after spending several hundred pounds.

Slightly odd off topic question but if I had £100k savings in an account but didn’t declare it how would the school ever find out about it? They don’t have access to confidential banking records. I also have some savings abroad (only Ireland) and can’t think how they would ever find those either?

They wouldn't. I guess you'd just be cheating the system.

@Passthecherrycoke

If you successful receive a bursary you will be a low income family.
Not only will this be evident from pay slips (mine asked for 6 month pay slips) and also bank statements (again 6 months).

Low income usually means benefits. Benefits will not be paid if £16k in savings (reduces from £6k).

Along with my mortgage to see how much remaining.

So yes - it could tuckee away BUT the combination of the above factors would lead one to wonder why someone had a large mortgage, had a frugal expenditure (bank statement), was receiving benefits (due to low income... the pay slips) (and the HMRC receives tax info from banks so would mean also tax evasion is receiving benefits).

So yes possible - but the extensive other information provided would make it difficult

I agree with nextphonewontbesamsung. Bursary people I have seen are "lifestyle" poor people. Eg two peripatetic music teachers, not paid a great deal but with plenty of time to coach their dcs in numerous instruments. Obviously it benefits the school to have good musicians, but still....

@Passthecherrycoke you would be commiting fraud and obtaining something by deception?