Impact of abolition of public schools

[daffodilbrain]

Labour want all public schools abolished - hypothetically how much pressure would this put on the state- could we afford an extra 7% in the system. Can a government really abolish them if so how? Make them
Illegal? Remove their charitable
Status and probably make them even more elite?

Logically if one is removing privilege, in addition to private schools, labour’s policy ought to extend to faith schools as well - these are often highly sought after due to better results and are not open to all ( on the basis of faith rather than wealth).
This is just a race to the bottom - why focus on removing privilege rather than pushing state school standards up. How is this going to help the economy thrive for everyone?

"This is a huge step forward in dismantling the privilege of a tiny, Eton educated elite who are running our country into the ground."

Ironically in the last 50 years most PMs haven't gone to private school - the longest period we've had a private school educated PM was under Blair.

Wilson, Callaghan, Heath, Thatcher, Major, Brown and May were all state educated. It's true that Eton is currently over represented, but policies should be based on best practice, not political posturing.

Turns out this policy is an unpopular stinker. Putting it in the manifesto may well be a liability.

Until very recently it was political poison to have your children privately educated regardless of party, and we hadn't had a Prime Minister educated at Eton since MacMillan I think.

But this policy seems to be the Labour equivalent of the Tories "bring back fox hunting" last election.
Does either party actually want to win an election?

Without wishing to invite a slagfest, the issue of intelligence needs to be considered. The Prime Ministers of the last 50 years who were not privately educated made it through educational success: to the grammar school, then university. Most people who can find the money for private education have intelligence, whether they are a successful self-made local building contractor, a doctor at the hospital, or a CEO of a big company. Intelligence is largely inherited, genetically, according to most sources. It is disingenuous to think that eradicating fee-paying education is miraculously going to make every child equally intelligent or equally interested in learning. Some are; some are not, but to shout about leveling the field is naive. I was never ever going to be an elite swimmer, as I struggle to enjoy cold water. But society needs far more competent electricians than it does lawyers or PR consultants. And the tragedy is that state education is selling society short by failing to send the message that a good tradesman is essential and someone to be respected once they have qualified, and planning the curriculum that would support that message. There's a dichotomy between "all should have prizes" and "let's tear down the institutions".

Imagine if the parents that pay had their kids in state schools.... watch how fast they would improve

XingMing - you have obviously have very biased ideas of what State education is for.

And what about John Major?

No, I don't think I have a biased idea of the purpose of education, state or private, Molly. I think every student deserves a good enough education to reach the qualification level they want for their ambition and ability level.

Dolly, I don't think the handful of private parents (spread as thin as they would be) would even make a dent in the attitude of most schools. They would be tagged instantly as bloody awkward, pushy types and the SLT would make themselves scarce at the first glimpse of them. It happened to me!

And the tragedy is that state education is selling society short by failing to send the message that a good tradesman is essential and someone to be respected once they have qualified

Why do you not expect private education to be selling that message too?

noblegiraffe independent schools don’t push the message that a career is a respectable career. This is because particularly in the UK we have a snobbery around becoming a tradesman. Often seen as a career for the less able or this with limited GCSEs for a reason I’m not sure I don’t want my gas boiler fitted by someone who needs to take his socks off to count past 10. My DH went to a very famous super selective independent school his by then solidly MC mother who came a very working class background, aspired for him to go to university and get a “respectable” job, one that she could boast to her friends about at her weekly trip to the hairdressers. A trade didn’t fit that criteria after all her brothers were tradesmen and they went to a state schools. This attitude still prevails. Many parents who pay for education are paying for measurable outcomes, top exam results, entry to top universities etc, outcomes that they need and want to believe are better than their children would have achieved if they'd been educated in the local state school however good it might be.
For independent schools parents are customers and the “customer is always right” what the customer wants he can have. So only the truly brave and alternative independent school will push the message to its pupils don’t go to uni generate a massive loan emerge with a degree that doesn’t equip you to do anything instead train to be a plumber or electrician.

Oh do shut up with your experiences and theories. Let's wait and see

I know why private schools don’t push the trades, happy.

But Xing thinks that state schools should push trades because it’s suitable for their level of intelligence and ambition.

Xing thinks that state school parents should have different ambitions for their children to private school parents. It’s wanting other people’s children to be a plumber, because being a plumber is great, but obviously their own child will become a lawyer.

Jeez. This thread is laughable. Go to bed peeps. Sleep off your angst 😊

And the tragedy is that state education is selling society short by failing to send the message that a good tradesman is essential and someone to be respected once they have qualified

I work with a lot of trades people. I know a few who are young ex public school.

Just because you go to private or public school doesn't mean you only get offered academic subjects.

That is state secondaries that only offer academia

Some of you don't understand that a child who goes to a fee paying school, even the 'public schools' isn't awarded in life for being a pupil there. These children work their asses off at these schools. Yes they have great teachers and facilities but they give their best and work so very hard. I know. I have a child at one of 'those' schools

We looked at three private special schools for DS and one was good enough we might consider it for secondary. The LEA would pay. Because they do not have suitable schools for some SEN.
And like a PP, some DCs with mild SEN might well do better in a mainstream private school which isn't all that academic but has smaller class sizes.
It's not all Oxbridge bound toffs.

says she with a private school education, professional parents and an Oxbridge degree

Exhibit A: Boris Johnson.

There’s no doubt that some of these schools give a leg up.

I’m not sure state schools are really pushing the message “get a trade”. Last week in my job I was waiting to see a pupil in a very well regarded comp, I was sitting in their lobby which was very smart in fact much smarter than Ive seen in many independent schools, all glass with electric sliding doors, a drink machine plush carpet one of those electric sign things detailing this years exam results quote from ofstead reports and God knows what else, they also had one this huge glossy poster up on the wall showing a map of the UK and which universities their pupils were going to this year.
But no poster saying that Sam had got an apprenticeship as a electrician or George an apprenticeship as a furniture maker or Kate a hairdresser. Maybe it’s not those paying for education who want their children to become lawyers and other people’s children to become plumbers.

Typo try again.
Maybe it’s not just those paying for education who want their children to become lawyers and other people children to become plumbers.

I’m not sure state schools are really pushing the message “get a trade”.

No. That was what Xing said. The point is that they wanted state schools to push the trade message because trades are great.

But obviously private schools wouldn’t be pushing that message.

So why should state schools have different ambitions for their pupils than private schools if trades are so great?

Of course we want clever electricians. Plenty in private schools would be well suited.

Some of you don't understand that a child who goes to a fee paying school, even the 'public schools' isn't awarded in life for being a pupil there. These children work their asses off at these schools. Yes they have great teachers and facilities but they give their best and work so very hard. I know. I have a child at one of 'those' schools

Not sure what point you are making here. Are you saying you believe that children at private schools work harder than other children, and it is working hard rather than other forms of privilege that pushed them ahead?

Exhibit A: Boris Johnson.

There’s no doubt that some of these schools give a leg up.

He has had leg ups because of family connections. Eton is almost incidental.

For most people the path to becoming an MP is not attractive - it involves years of being a local councillor and standing in constituencies as the 'no hope' candidate for no remuneration, followed by the promise of a job that, assuming you are an academic high flyer with a good degree, doesn't pay that well and provides questionable job security and promotional prospects.

It's easier if you have connections and a financial cushion - but I think that is more likely to come from family than school.

Eton is almost incidental.

No old boys network there at all then.

For most people the path to becoming an MP is not attractive - it involves years of being a local councillor and standing in constituencies as the 'no hope' candidate for no remuneration, followed by the promise of a job that, assuming you are an academic high flyer with a good degree, doesn't pay that well and provides questionable job security and promotional prospects

I disagree and suggest you do some reading up on the entrenched advantages you get from going to Eton and the like.