Are there benefits to independent school at Reception age?

[mr87]

Here is my situation and I am hoping for some insight: My family is moving to the UK next month, and we are staying for 3 years. My oldest is 4 and due to start Reception this year. My husband’s employer will pay for our children to attend any independent school of our choice. We have found a house in a lovely village with a good state school that is walking distance. Meanwhile, the closest independent school that we would consider is a 20 minute drive away. I don’t mind driving, I’m quite use to it, but I keep thinking of all the added benefits of walking to school and engaging in our new community by being a part of the local primary school. Can anyone tell me if there are really any significant benefits to sending my child to an independent school at her age? Keeping in mind that this isn’t long term and we will be returning to the US in 3 years. She won’t reach an age where things such as extracurriculars and testing really matter, I don’t think. So far the only benefit I can think of is that class sizes are smaller at the independent school, but I am not from the UK so maybe there are other benefits I don’t know about. Why else would people be spending £15,000 per year, I wonder. Any insight and opinion is welcome!

@BubblesBuddy

I’ve got almost 20 years experience in the state sector (and some indie too) and without outing myself, I’ve had a role taking me to over 100 schools across London. I’m very well aware of what bottom sets look like. IMO, the sad truth is that there’s just no funding and a lot of low attainers are not even close to being appropriately or sufficiently supported. They do underachieve a lot lot compared to peers in nurturing indies. But yes, in indies you’ll see far fewer children with significant behaviour issues especially in comparison to inner city schools. I have to say, though, that behaviour in comps in outer London (eg boroughs of Sutton or Kingston) is excellent even in the less desirable ones.

OP, sorry for hijacking the thread

I have 40 years experience but not in London. I think, essentially, we agree! I do though, think you won’t see really low IQ children in independent schools as they just won’t admit them. They are exclusively in the state sector. Previously they would have been in special schools.

Fair enough if by 'low' you mean that low. I've come across 12-14yo who didn't know the alphabet confidently or couldn't grasp the concept of a half... I agree I can't imagine ability that low in a mainstream indie.

@JoJoSM2 I don't mind at all, finding it all quite interesting.

An American family just moved in round the corner from us funnily enough - they’ve opted for independent school. Maybe it’s op . Our dd and theirs have hit if off that’s for sure!

@MsTSwift Hah, not us as we're not there yet, but that is quite a coincidence ☺️

I would also try your 20 minute commute in rush hour.

Our private school is 16 mins away in normal traffic but is, on average, 40 mins in rush hour and has been 1hr at worst.

For us this is a sacrifice worth making, but it isn't for everyone and does rather overshadow the day.

To those who commented on class sizes - indies near me have class sizes of 22-24 as against state with 30. It does make me wonder if this can be called as a 'smaller class size' at all - given that both will have a FT teacher & FT TA? Any thoughts?

BeautifulBlackBamboo, as a parent, I wouldn’t be impressed with classes of 24 in an indie. Whether I’d go with the indie or the local state school would depend on the academics and extracurricular provision in the local state school. Near me, there are academic state primaries with 30+ clubs, own swimming pools etc. so I’d be tempted to save the fees. A different story if the local primary isn’t great, though.

It does make me wonder if this can be called as a 'smaller class size' at all - given that both will have a FT teacher & FT TA?

I wouldn’t make assumptions that both the indie and the state school will have a FT teacher and a FT TA.

The private primary school my DC used to go to had a FT TA in Reception, a half time TA in Year 1, a TA for a day a week in Year 2, and no regular TA time in Year 3 upwards.

Most of our local state primary schools do seem to have a FT TA per class right up through Year 6.

TA provision is something we didn’t think to ask about when our oldest DC started school , but in retrospect it’s something that would have been useful to know about in advance.

A small class size can be nice.......but I always add the caveat that you don't want a small year group.

Lots of Preps have one small class per year (or possibly 2) and this creates a year group which can have very few boys or girls if it is a mixed school as there is rarely a 50-50 split. If you're talking very small, there is a small pool to make friendships with, to create competitive sports teams from and to create decent sized groups of similar ability for learning. Remember too, that the cosy atmosphere which might seem nice for a 4 year old might not be what you want for an 11 or 13 year old at the top of Prep.

Personally, I'd always want a year group of at least 40 children and 60 is better. As the children get older they will be taught by subject specialists and in sets for some subjects - so the size of form group doesn't necessarily reflect the size of teaching group. For example, a 3 Form Prep of about 60 per year may well run 4 maths groups or even 5.

People are often hugely attracted to small or tiny classes,mespeciallybwhen thinking of their 3 year old who might be in a tiny nursery group, but don't realise that actually a critical mass of children is needed for good group learning. The thing that actually makes the difference to learning is the quality of teaching not class size - this has been shown in research again and again, but people struggle to believe it. Yes, a smaller class should be easier to manage but a good teacher can manage a state school size class and ensure great learning for the range of abilities. The problem is that not all teachers are great teachers, in any sector. And actually you'll often find in small little Preps that there are some teachers who couldn't hack it in the state sector.

The trouble is, it is SO hard to know about the quality of teaching in Preps. They don't tend to do SATs and entrance to senior schools is often distorted by lots of parents paying for outside tutoring, so what evidence can parents look at it reality? I'd look at the marking of books and if they are setting individualised targets for children - you'd be surprised how many are still just writing 'good' on the work and that is it.

In the end, the thing I think is genuinely different is that there are fewer unsupportive parents who aren't interested in education and fewer disruptive children. People will pay a lot for those things and those things can mean better progress, never mind teachers, facilities or small class sizes. Most people don't want to say that is the reason though for going independent and often aren't really aware of it consciously as the key reason themselves.

@WombatChocolate Can you please link to research demonstrating that there is no difference to outcomes in a class of 30 vs 16?

In the smallest preps, say with 10 chidren per year group, it is pretty difficult/impossible to assemble orchestras or large sports teams. From my observation, friendship groups are just different as children socialise with those from other year groups rather than just their own.
And you really don’t need 4-5 Maths sets as a tiny class is like teaching a tuition group. It requires some differentiation (a basic skill in a teacher’s skill set) and there’s plenty of time to get around everyone for individual attention.

I think I'll proceed in both directions and then take a look around when we arrive.

Good. As shadowstar said, it 'depends on the individual schools in question.'. And it depends on the child, and what your criteria are. One thing which is very different to the US is that a ridiculous number of English state schools are 'faith schools' relative to the number of churchgoers - they'll have anyone if they're undersubscribed, but their 'ethos' may or may not be compatible with yours. Our local village school was 100% white British, the private schools weren't.

I would go local. If your DC were in the States she wouldn't be starting school yet anyway (would she?). So even if it's not the best school and she doesn't make huge progress for the first year she won't be behind her peers back in the US and the social and emotional benefits of staying local and making friends may far outweigh any academic benefit of commuting to the independent school. I would start at local primary and if you're not happy with it you can always switch to private next year.

Also your child is tiny it’s ages 4-7 so I would focus on what would make her happiest and be easiest for family integration into community so would veer towards local school all else being equal.

Lots other countries fine even start school until 6

*dont even

Everyone says class sizes are the biggest advantage of independent schools . Not always. Far more important your kids have big pool of friends to choose from than being able to conjugate Latin verbs.

It depends entirely on each of the schools. You won't know till you've looked at them and decided which suits your child better. We have quite a few American families in our town who come for 3 years, they usually choose the private school option.

In Finland 80% of DC do nursery education from 3-6 and formal education starts at 6. It’s not as if the majority do nothing from 3-6. They are being prepared for school.

Class sizes and learning Latin are not quite the same thing. Latin in preps is usually taught to the scholarship group. Others don’t often learn it. I do think a small class with a useless teacher who couldn’t get a job in a state school is not what I would pay for. A larger prep school can be great because of the variety on offer.

Few independent schools are small enough to have a one-class intake. Ours has 3 Reception classes of 12 kids in each, which was a major factor in why we sent our children there - small class sizes for when they’re working, but a larger group of kids for playing with. Each class has a FT teacher, FT TA, and a student teacher, so the adult/child ratio is amazing.